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+--- Thread: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH (/thread-5388.html)
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Radim Dobeš - 07-08-2026
(07-08-2026, 02:53 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(07-08-2026, 12:00 PM)rikforto Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Surely we agree there are 8 people in that drawing?
On You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. there are 7 nymphs in the upper pool, 8 nymphs in the lower pool.
How the upper seven (female, awake, naked) nymphs could represent the seven (male, sleeping, clothed) youths of the legend is a bit unclear to me. Which is not helped by having one of the Sleepers (not drawn on the VMS) later buy bread from eight naked ladies, which look just like the seven upper ones, in a market place that had just been flooded knee-deep. But presumably their oven and bread shelves escaped the flood by being on a higher ground, just outside the page.
All the best, --stolfi
I will remain consistent and use an analogy that has been voiced here many times before. The images are transformed so that their origins are not immediately apparent at first glance, yet they remain intelligible to the initiated. The same applies to the transformed text—much like the transformation of plants found in apocalyptic literature and protective scrolls. It is simply a symbolic language employed by the author. Treat this as a fact that must be accepted. Without this initial premise, I, too, would be searching through balneology texts, medical treatises, and herbals—areas where many people have already been working for years. I am attempting to blaze a new trail here. Thus, the same system of visual transformation was applied to Jacob's Ladder as well.
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Mauro - 07-08-2026
Why did you choose You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for Jacob's ladder, instead of f79r?
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Radim Dobeš - 07-08-2026
(07-08-2026, 04:13 PM)Mauro Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why did you choose You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for Jacob's ladder, instead of f79r?
For me, the reclining figure here was the most important element. I also saw a parallel with the text of the Book of Enoch, which states that God removed—or cut off—a portion of the heavens during the creation of the world; this is visible on folio f75r. Furthermore, the figure is holding a pointed object; according to the Book of Enoch, this is a crystal. Regarding the example of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. you mentioned, there is a figure at the bottom carrying a log under its arm. I will therefore focus my search within religious and biblical legends on these specific details. It could potentially depict the construction of Noah's Ark. I will see where this leads.
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Oscroft - 07-08-2026
(07-08-2026, 02:14 PM)Radim Dobeš Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is necessary to understand what each color in the Voynich Manuscript signifies. The color green does not represent water; rather, it denotes earthly phenomena. Blue also carries a different meaning; it typically represents celestial phenomena or water (e.g., the River Jordan). I intend to describe this color-coding system in some detail. Naturally, there is disagreement regarding the depictions of nudity and nymphs. I maintain that they represent various figures—angels, saints, ordinary people, stars, planets, and so on. Nudity serves as a symbol of purity (see Hesychasm). I understand, of course, that you may not agree with this view.
It's not just that I don't agree with the view, it's more than I see the entire "symbolic" approach as fatally flawed.
You start with an assumption that you then work towards, and when things don't fit as they appear you then decide it must be symbolic. So green symbolises one thing, nude women symbolise ordinary people at a market... or whatever. And you have no evidence to support that symbology. You can literally choose up to symbolise down, good to symbolise bad, or anything you want by that approach.
It means anyone can make anything look like anything else simply by inventing symbology to fit. And there's then no way to tell which of the resulting near-infinite possible solutions might be remotely close to the truth.
As I say, I do find your searches for matching images in other documents very interesting and potentially valuable, and I'll keep watching to see what else you come up with. I do hope you keep going with that.
But the approach of inventing unsupported symbology to create the meaning you want the document to have is pure fantasy - literally.
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Jorge_Stolfi - 07-08-2026
(07-08-2026, 04:02 PM)Radim Dobeš Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I will remain consistent and use an analogy that has been voiced here many times before. The images are transformed so that their origins are not immediately apparent at first glance, yet they remain intelligible to the initiated. ... It is simply a symbolic language employed by the author.
That could be the case, but for a particular "reading" of a specific image to be convincing, one needs more than just a small number coincidence ("seven standing naked nymphs may represent those seven sleeping young men") or a very broad similarity of layout ("a vertical row of nymphs sliding down a water slide may represent that vertical row of angels climbing a ladder").
There are literally millions of illustrations on pre-1500 manuscripts out there. Any image one can draw of pick from the VMS will have thousands of completely unrelated images from other manuscripts that are "similar" to it by the above criteria. There are thousands of illustrations with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Thousands of illustrations with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Even thousands of illustrations of naked You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
To claim that the VMS Bio/Balneo illustrations are symbolic for something else, you would have to show either stronger similarities -- like half a dozen independent matching details -- or a consistent "key" that is used across many images -- like "the illustrations describe the various stages of the war between the Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Madagascar Confederacy: each naked nymph represents a general, each pool represents a kingdom, and a pipe represents a political allegiance".
All the best
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - R. Sale - 07-08-2026
What do you make of VMs f78v? Nine ladies in a half-arcaded fountain.
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RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Radim Dobeš - 07-08-2026
(07-08-2026, 07:23 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What do you make of VMs f78v? Nine ladies in a half-arcaded fountain.
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I would pause at this image and begin studying its history and significance. I would determine whether it aligns with the content of the Book of Enoch. Next, I would examine the composition—and that is where I spot the discrepancies. I would also question the presence of Pegasus—asking why it does not appear in the VMS—though I would save the image for potential future connections. Regarding the image of the Seven Sleepers, there are points of agreement: the sun and moon, the numerical ratios of light, the bucket, the number of sleepers, and their approximate positioning. The scene involving bread matches as well. Furthermore, the image signifies resurrection—a key motif in the Book of Enoch, representing the final reckoning. In short, I would examine every aspect of it before making it public.
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Radim Dobeš - 09-08-2026
I am supplementing previous posts #118 and #146. Cylindrical vessels symbolizing a baptismal font; alternatively, the pedestals upon which the saints in the earlier posts are seated; or perhaps garments draped over the shoulders of figures in religious scenes—all these variations align with the religious theme of this thread.
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RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - DG97EEB - 09-08-2026
(09-08-2026, 07:22 AM)Radim Dobeš Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am supplementing previous posts #118 and #146. Cylindrical vessels symbolizing a baptismal font; alternatively, the pedestals upon which the saints in the earlier posts are seated; or perhaps garments draped over the shoulders of figures in religious scenes—all these variations align with the religious theme of this thread.
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Now this is interesting.....
RE: Voynich is encrypted ENOCH - Radim Dobeš - 09-08-2026
Radim Dobeš Wrote:I am supplementing previous posts #118 and #146. Cylindrical vessels symbolizing a baptismal font; alternatively, the pedestals upon which the saints in the earlier posts are seated; or perhaps garments draped over the shoulders of figures in religious scenes—all these variations align with the religious theme of this thread.I believe Linda made an important point by suggesting we focus on vats and barrels that aren't the standard wooden kind with hoops, but rather those featuring ornamentation.
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