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Rosettes as a ... magic altar - Printable Version

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RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar - Jorge_Stolfi - 02-10-2026

(02-10-2026, 11:25 AM)gerrydelasel Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why would you assume the author intended it to be bound?

For the same reason that practically all books were (and are) bound: because a bound codex is infinitely more convenient to handle than a stack of loose bifolios.

If the Author's intent was to keep it as loose sheets, why would he fold the normal bifolios in half?  If he kept them unfolded, he would save the ~5x20 cm area of vellum that is wasted with the inside margins.   He could have drawn 3 plants per side per bifolio, instead of just 2

If he intended to fold the bifolios anyway, but did not plan to nest them into quires, the inside margins, next to the fold, could be much narrower -- say, 5 mm.  Inside margins of 20-25 mm only make sense if one expect the bifolios to be bound, which would  often make that area (next to the "gutter") hard to read because of curvature.   

I would also expect more figures spanning two pages, like f78v+f81r, because every bifolio would have two "centerfold" pages.

And if he intended to keep the bifolios unbound, but fold and nest them into quires, he would have all the disadvantages of binding, without any of the benefits.  Including the need to write the pages of Bio in a non-trivial order, jumping back and forth between the bifolios of that quire.

All the best, --stolfi

RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar - Rafal - 03-10-2026

Let's make some summary of my theory.

I believe Rosettes and maybe also "four winds" page could be used as portable altar for contacting the spirits.

By the way I found a picture which somehow links winds to a horoscope. One day I may try to read the text and understand how it works in details  Wink
   

I think that Voynich Manuscript wasn't however used in a serious ceremonial magic like that of Aleister Crowley but rather in cheap carnival shows and tricks.

A client came to the charlatan and asked some questions about his future.

Then the charlatan made the show. First through Rosettes and a crystal ball he "established connection" with the spirits. Then he asked them the questions. Then the spirits "answered" him.

My next belief is that Voynich Manuscript is connected to medieval fortune telling books known as Losbuch or Libro delle Sorti (link in German: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). These books often required using fortune telling wheels, similar to the stuff used in Wheel of Fortune show, known as Glücksrad in German. They survived in some Losbuchs:
   

I believe a man using Voynich Manuscript had such a wheel (now lost). He spinned it and when it stopped, it pointed at some angle. Before that he asked the client about his month of birth/zodiac sign. Then he checked the entry at the appropriate angle and at the appropriate page.

The angel from the wheel above pointed us here Smile
   

And then he "read" the prophecy told by the spirits. Of course he was making it all up on the fly as the text is probably meaningless. It had this good side that he could "feel" the client and tell him/her whatever they wanted to hear Wink

As I said in another thread I came to believe that Voynich Zodiac is about prophecies by linking nymph holding stars to similar imagery of prophetess Sibilla and other people from another Losbuchs:
   

So that would be it. I think Voynich Manuscript is a composite manuscript made of a herbal and a fortune telling book. Or of a fake herbal and a fake Losbuch if you wish.

RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar - nablator - 03-10-2026

(03-10-2026, 02:01 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.They survived in some Losbuchs:

Any reason for selecting one of the 12 apostles with a wheel of fortune?

RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar - JustAnotherTheory - 03-10-2026

I find your theory quite convincing. How can we test it? By looking for fortune tellers in 15th century northern Italy? Do we even have a way of finding a register of charlatans or fortune tellers?

Another big question is the connection with the Taccola sketchbook. The charlatan must have had access to it at some point, for at least the sun face and the bridge illustrations. How would a charlatan get hold of such a rare manuscript?

RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar - DG97EEB - 03-10-2026

I was looking at this earlier today funnily enough..

Look how beautiful this is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

This was a physical dial....


(Don't get seduced by the letters at the back - they're 19th century)

RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar - pjburkshire - 03-10-2026

(03-10-2026, 02:01 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I believe Rosettes and maybe also "four winds" page could be used as portable altar for contacting the spirits.

What are you calling the "four winds" page?

RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar - Rafal - 03-10-2026

Quote:What are you calling the "four winds" page?

Folio f57v.
We cannot be sure that it shows four winds but it is a common interpretation.

RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar - Rafal - 03-10-2026

Quote:Any reason for selecting one of the 12 apostles with a wheel of fortune?

To pick your chosen apostle, by random or divine event, depending on your worldview  Wink

Then there are many possibilities:
- you have to pray to that apostle
- at the moment of selection you automatically "get" protection and blessing of that apostle
- you get some personal message or fortune telling from that apostle, with magician acting as a medium or simply reading it from the book

In the manuscript with a wheel I don't see such messages but here is a similar thing from another manuscript. It contains pages with different sages, like Solomon, Abraham, Isaac, Aristotle, Avicenna etc. and they all have personal prophecies for you Smile

Here is Isaac for example. First you get him out of the other guys by wheel or dice and then you probably choose some answers the same way.
   

[*]1.The trade / purchase will not go through.
[*]2.His enemy will not succeed.
[*]3.He will perhaps [succeed] in this matter.
[*]4.He wins / gains nothing on the goods.
[*]5.Much sorrow lies along the good path / because of the goods.
[*]6.The miserable / exiled one comes with great hardship.
[*]7.The maiden will live in poverty.
[*]8.The short-lived child will be greatly mourned.
[*]9.The woman gives birth to a little boy.
[*]10.The red-haired woman gives birth to nothing but little girls.
[*]11.Through the earth it will be ground / worked.
[*]12.Through poverty it comes to measure / moderation.
[*]13.Through love [one] will die.
[*]14.Those long granted / looked for will not bring heavy gain.
[*]15.Dignity / honor will not weigh heavily on him.
[*]16.The friendship of his lord does not fail him.
[*]17.He will not become a joyful host if he suffers / leaves.
[*]18. There is hope in the trade / transaction.

RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar - Rafal - 03-10-2026

Quote:I find your theory quite convincing. How can we test it? By looking for fortune tellers in 15th century northern Italy? Do we even have a way of finding a register of charlatans or fortune tellers?

Another big question is the connection with the Taccola sketchbook. The charlatan must have had access to it at some point, for at least the sun face and the bridge illustrations. How would a charlatan get hold of such a rare manuscript?

I believe charlatan wasn't personally making the manuscript. My guess is that he paid some students to do it that had access to university libraries or even knew some masters personally. I don't know if they had to know Taccola personally or were some copies of his works already circulating, let's say, 10 years after they were created.

That could explain access to different sources combined with poor drawing skill.

But proving anything may be very difficult.

First, Voynich Manuscript doesn't contain any obvious fortune telling imagery. It it contained such, it would be recognized 100 years ago and it didn't happen. I build my theory on assumption stars = fortune telling by similarity to Losbuch imagery and general connection of "stargazers" with prophesing. But it's not enough and may not be true in some cases.

And finding decent list of charlatans from the 15 century may be hard if not impossible. I guess finding list of charlatans from the 20th century could be hard  Wink They were shady guys doing illegal business in dirty booths.

But it all begins to be logical for me.
Meaningless text? Why not if the goal was to impress and cheat people?
Many people working on the manuscript? It may be a problem for theories that assume some maniac or genius doing it but if it was a practical thing made to earn money that you are paid for it then why not?

RE: Rosettes as a ... magic altar - Rafal - 05-10-2026

Just yesterday I found a nice match of a magical altar and Rosettes

It comes from The Key of Solomon: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
It's 19th century printed edition but the imagery is probably much older

   

   

The circles in the altar are signed "Censer". As a non-native English speaker I had to check this word and a censer is a vessel used to generate smoke during religious or magical ceremonies:

[Image: Botafumeiro.JPG?utm_source=en.wikipedia....l_unscaled]

Actually I don't think the Voynich Manuscript owner really used censers with Rosettes. The parchment would get instantly dirty from the smoke and you couldn't clean it. But he could be inspired by such or similar design.