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+--- Thread: A match for the famous Armadillo? (/thread-5363.html)
RE: A match for the famous Armadillo? - Jorge_Stolfi - 23-02-2026
(23-02-2026, 12:59 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The question however remains how and where the VM artist got hold of a copy of Taccola's book then?
Considering Taccola's fame, there must have been hundreds of copies (and copies of copies, and ...) of his book going around in the 1400s.
Keep in mind that only one bifolio of the VMS was C14-dated to the early 1400s, and that is only a lower bound to the date of when the book was written. It is quite possible that the Author used 50-year-old vellum that had been rejected by some scribe or scribal "factory" and was kept in their scrap bin for many decades. Or that, in his old age, he used some cheap vellum that he had acquired when he was a student but ended up not using back then. Or that he scavenged blank bifolios from cheap old books that he had no use for.
The Artist probably was a simpleton who could not tell a zodiac from a zombie, but the Author apparently had a good variety of "scientific" books, that he lent to the Artist for use as models.
All the best, --stolfi
RE: A match for the famous Armadillo? - R. Sale - 23-02-2026
Then is the VMs cosmos [f68v3] the work of a genius or a fool?
RE: A match for the famous Armadillo? - Jorge_Stolfi - 24-02-2026
(23-02-2026, 11:12 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Then is the VMs cosmos [f68v3] the work of a genius or a fool?
You do mean f86v3, the four "sprouts" the two birds?
In general, I believe that every illustration owes a bit to both characters, the Scribe and the Author. The Author made a sketch and/or verbal description of the drawing, and the Scribe fleshed that out, adding decorative elements from books provided by the Author.
In the case of f86v3, the Author must have specified that the figures was to have four "things" growing form the corners, and probably the two human figures ad two birds, and that three of the "things" would be blowing wind or spraying water towards the center. The Scribe probably provided many of the details by copying from some illustration(s) from some book(s).
By the way, that figure apparently was left incomplete, for unknown reasons. The circle in the center may have been supposed to be a T-O map, but perhaps the Scribe did not have the crib for that at hand. Or maybe it was supposed to be something else, and the Scribe drew only a circle, which was assumed to be a T-O map by a BEEEP who added the "T". See You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for a discussion of BEEEP on the SE spout.
And someone may have used that page for a pen test. The big fold-out probably was a loose sheet all by itself for many years after the book was written, before some later owner decided to bind whatever remained of it. In that case, f86v3 would have been the back page of the fold-out when folded. I can imagine someone looking around for some vellum for a pen test, before writing an important letter, and choosing the back of that "map"...
Al the best, --stolfi
RE: A match for the famous Armadillo? - Bernd - 24-02-2026
I would prefer to keep Taccola-specific talk that is not related to Barbara of Cilli and the Hungarian connection in the dedicated thread.
(23-02-2026, 09:59 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Considering Taccola's fame, there must have been hundreds of copies (and copies of copies, and ...) of his book going around in the 1400s.No, this is not true as Koen pointed out, and this is the point here!
We are talking about de ingeneis book 3+4, Palatino 766. Taccola's personal notebook dedicated to emperor Sigismund. No known (full) copies of this book exist, in contrast to his books 1+2 and his later works. The notebook vanished soon after Taccola finished it and only resurfaced much later in the 17th century in the possession of the Sienese Strozzi family as Marco has shown. We may assume they owned it the whole time.
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Even so, imagery from Pal. 766 did not find their way into later copies of Taccola's books. There is the incomplete copy Palatino 767, also from the Strozzi family, but it omits the VM-relevant imagery. Which means - books 3+4 were always obscure and never widely available. And exactly from this, VM imagery likely originated.
RE: A match for the famous Armadillo? - Jorge_Stolfi - 24-02-2026
(24-02-2026, 07:00 AM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.No, this is not true as Koen pointed out, and this is the point here!
We are talking about de ingeneis book 3+4, Palatino 766. Taccola's personal notebook dedicated to emperor Sigismund. No known (full) copies of this book exist, in contrast to his books 1+2 and his later works.
No contest about the substance of you post. However, note that "no known copies exist" is quite different from "no copies ever existed".
All the best, --stolfi