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+--- Thread: voynich research from mexico (/thread-5010.html)
RE: voynich research from mexico - N._N. - 01-11-2025
(01-11-2025, 06:57 PM)ZamnaMx Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but instead focus on presenting the methodological framework to qualified academics who can evaluate it from a professional standpoint.
Maybe there is a language barrier here, but this is what I was referring to with 'critical feedback'. My post was meant to explain why your current approach to asking for this kind of feedback is unlikely to succeed. Which is by no means any judgement of your work, I would not consider myself qualified to do so, nor do I have the time to put in the hours that would probably be required. I am just mapping out the realities of academia since you asked for ways to approach scholars in one of your earlier posts.
RE: voynich research from mexico - ZamnaMx - 01-11-2025
(01-11-2025, 07:01 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:I prefer to work with academics on the methodology — debating results without a method is pointless.
Exactly, you choose not to give an example of your method. So we cant help you.
As an aside, here are some red flags i noticed in your posts.
. Lots of bold type
. Peculiar phrase usage pointing to an attempt at an argument-from-authority i.e doctoral-level
. Patent - can you patent a method and why would you want to.
. Unwilling to discuss Methodology -we are not really interested in a result like 'daiin' means 'moonflip' we want to know the steps taken to produce said result.
. Read my book.
. Unwilling to reveal more details because of Patent, Copyright, Book Publisher issues.
. Inconsistent reasons for posting here on an open medievalia discussion internet forum.
. Posted 'results' are word-salads or meaningless, nonsensical sentences i.e "and the soul shapes the body within that clarity.”
. Bad terminology e.g the famous Cheshire use of 'portfolio' instead of 'folio' in this case 'Alphabetic language'.
. Use of the words 'Framework' and 'symbolic' - these words have seen much abuse lately, i feel a bit sorry for them.
I hope you find what you are looking for, but i do not think you will find it here.
My point was very clear in my presentation:
I’m looking for an academic who is genuinely interested in this subject and open to contact, as Yale itself recommended that I explore this forum.
Everything else that has been said are speculations made by others, not by me.
To me, the real red flag is when people don’t actually read what someone writes and simply want to argue or impose a sense of ownership over the topic.
I posted in Voynich Talk General because it’s the broad section of the forum, not one meant for debating theories.
I’ve been the administrator of forums with more than a million members, so I know very well what an online community is and how discussions should be handled.
I usually write in Spanish and then translate, so please keep that in mind.
Online communities are often aggressive toward outsiders, and this one seems no different.
I have provided a lot of solid and carefully prepared information, but it doesn’t seem to matter to some people here.
It’s becoming clear that this is not really about the Voynich — it’s about hostility toward anyone who is foreign or comes from outside what you think is acceptable. i did present information but not comments about that, prefer to speculate about myself or my work... is funny. LOL.
RE: voynich research from mexico - ZamnaMx - 01-11-2025
(01-11-2025, 07:12 PM)N._N. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(01-11-2025, 06:57 PM)ZamnaMx Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but instead focus on presenting the methodological framework to qualified academics who can evaluate it from a professional standpoint.
Maybe there is a language barrier here, but this is what I was referring to with 'critical feedback'. My post was meant to explain why your current approach to asking for this kind of feedback is unlikely to succeed. Which is by no means any judgement of your work, I would not consider myself qualified to do so, nor do I have the time to put in the hours that would probably be required. I am just mapping out the realities of academia since you asked for ways to approach scholars in one of your earlier posts.
Thank you for the clarification.
My reaction was mainly because the first message mentioned “vague emails,” which sounded dismissive.
I understand your broader point now, and I fully agree that forums are not the best place to present academic research.
but like i explained 5 times. was yale librarian who recommed me to look here.
My goal is simply to find a proper, formal way to present my work and eventually connect with qualified scholars who can evaluate it in the right context.
Thank you again for your time and for outlining the academic realities so clearly.
RE: voynich research from mexico - Rafal - 01-11-2025
I'll try again.
You gave translation for 1v:
Quote:Water moves with the force of life and purifies whatever it touches.
Its current teaches the soul measure and repose.
Fire accompanies it and tempers it; its warmth sustains virtue without destroying it.
From their union the living herb is born:
its roots drink the earth’s moisture,
its leaves preserve the sun’s clarity,
and the spirit of both circulates in its sap.
The air gathers its fragrance and carries its power throughout the world.
Thus water learns firmness from fire,
and fire learns gentleness from water.
When the soul beholds this concord, it remembers its origin:
it understands that the order of the elements
is also the order of thought.
And whoever knows that balance, is healed.
Tell us just which line in the original text contains the sentence:
Thus water learns firmness from fire,
and fire learns gentleness from water.
I suppose there should be some pattern like:
A B C D E
E B F D A
where A is "water" B is "learns", E is "fire" and so on.
RE: voynich research from mexico - ZamnaMx - 01-11-2025
You won’t find that in the Voynich.
This is a modernized English version.
The Voynich has no English language, and that’s why it’s very difficult to translate it directly into any modern tongue.
One of the main difficulties in translating the Voynich is that you would first need to understand perfectly the original language in which it was written.
Otherwise, your way of thinking will never align with the structure of that language.
People try to find equivalent words or modern ways to express ideas that simply don’t match how the manuscript was composed.
The Voynich actually contains two layers of code:
– The visible code, the script we can see.
– And a second, deeper code — the hidden linguistic system in which it was written, a secret form of Latin used by alchemists.
Until you recognize both layers, it’s impossible to truly read it.
i can share some ptrivate info if you are really interested.
RE: voynich research from mexico - ZamnaMx - 01-11-2025
(01-11-2025, 08:06 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'll try again.
You gave translation for 1v:
Quote:Water moves with the force of life and purifies whatever it touches.
Its current teaches the soul measure and repose.
Fire accompanies it and tempers it; its warmth sustains virtue without destroying it.
From their union the living herb is born:
its roots drink the earth’s moisture,
its leaves preserve the sun’s clarity,
and the spirit of both circulates in its sap.
The air gathers its fragrance and carries its power throughout the world.
Thus water learns firmness from fire,
and fire learns gentleness from water.
When the soul beholds this concord, it remembers its origin:
it understands that the order of the elements
is also the order of thought.
And whoever knows that balance, is healed.
Tell us just which line in the original text contains the sentence:
Thus water learns firmness from fire,
and fire learns gentleness from water.
I suppose there should be some pattern like:
A B C D E
E B F D A
where A is "water" B is "learns", E is "fire" and so on.
If you try to translate the Voynich Manuscript directly, it won’t make much sense —
because it was written in a language and a format specifically designed to keep knowledge under control and away from uninitiated eyes.
You had to be initiated to understand it.
Even people from that same time period couldn’t read the book, because most technical manuscripts were written in such a way as to prevent knowledge from spreading outside their professional or philosophical circles.
I truly believe that’s probably one of the main reasons nobody has ever been able to translate it before.
Translation is already difficult — but translating into an unknown, forgotten language that operates under a completely different logic from our modern ones is something far more complex.
What I did was to solve that first riddle:
to identify what was the original language and system of thought used by the people who wrote this masterpiece.
there more books under the same system...
i am looking for someone related to editorials, agencies or academic that want to participate on the project.
RE: voynich research from mexico - Stefan Wirtz_2 - 01-11-2025
(01-11-2025, 07:18 PM)ZamnaMx Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[..] My point was very clear in my presentation:
I’m looking for an academic who is genuinely interested in this subject and open to contact, as Yale itself recommended that I explore this forum.
[..]
Talking about red flags, this here seems to be right clear:
in all translations or interpretations this means "don't call us, we call you (never)" or, more directly "go play somewhere else".
That is the reaction of "Yale", should be representative for the whole academic world.
I think you will find no one of the demanded acedemic rank silently reading here and just waiting to do lots of work trying to understand your version of "solved it!" -- and there will probably nobody discretely hand you a calling card of some "expert" for Voynich deciphering. Fun fact: there are no such experts.
RE: voynich research from mexico - ZamnaMx - 01-11-2025
(01-11-2025, 09:37 PM)Stefan Wirtz_2 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(01-11-2025, 07:18 PM)ZamnaMx Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[..] My point was very clear in my presentation:
I’m looking for an academic who is genuinely interested in this subject and open to contact, as Yale itself recommended that I explore this forum.
[..]
Talking about red flags, this here seems to be right clear:
in all translations or interpretations this means "don't call us, we call you (never)" or, more directly "go play somewhere else".
That is the reaction of "Yale", should be representative for the whole academic world.
I think you will find no one of the demanded acedemic rank silently reading here and just waiting to do lots of work trying to understand your version of "solved it!" -- and there will probably nobody discretely hand you a calling card of some "expert" for Voynich deciphering. Fun fact: there are no such experts.
Once again, the same problem — people don’t seem to actually read what I write.
I’m not asking to check my translation or theories; I’m working on a philological method, which is verifiable and reproducible.
This isn’t about personal opinions or theories, it’s about structure and language analysis.
Looks like the reading comprehension issue is not on my side. Haha.
i didnt translate the voynich, my methodology did. there is an ocean of difference between both concepts. everybody is trying to translate voynich. voynich can be tranlsated if you have a metodology.
RE: voynich research from mexico - Kaybo - 01-11-2025
I think its interesting and I would love to see your work when its published. However, its a bit unclear what you want from this forum? If you do not want to share any information with us, how could anyone here help you? Since you are not a scientist in this field, why do you care about a journal publication? Theses journals are just useful in academia, if you are not in this world why you need the reputation of such journals? You could just upload your manuscript to arxiv or similar sites, put it on instagram, youtube or whatever if you think someone could steel your work. When you already patented your translation method, why you do not want to share it here?
Some points I am interested in: The old language you are talking about, is there any evidence it existed? Are there any translations for that? Or is it a forgotten language that you translate into Spanish and English?
RE: voynich research from mexico - ZamnaMx - 01-11-2025
(01-11-2025, 09:55 PM)Kaybo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think its interesting and I would love to see your work when its published. However, its a bit unclear what you want from this forum? If you do not want to share any information with us, how could anyone here help you? Since you are not a scientist in this field, why do you care about a journal publication? Theses journals are just useful in academia, if you are not in this world why you need the reputation of such journals? You could just upload your manuscript to arxiv or similar sites, put it on instagram, youtube or whatever if you think someone could steel your work. When you already patented your translation method, why you do not want to share it here?
Some points I am interested in: The old language you are talking about, is there any evidence it existed? Are there any translations for that? Or is it a forgotten language that you translate into Spanish and English?
It’s a historical fact — that’s how scholars worked in the 14th and 15th centuries and well.. always, even now.
They used private or restricted languages to control the transmission of knowledge.
It wasn’t “totally secret,” just a linguistic system with specialized or coded vocabulary, so that only those with the proper education could read and understand it.
Alchemists, masons, and other learned circles used the same principle.
I won’t answer more personal questions — they are irrelevant.
Please stop making assumptions about me or my intentions; such comments are disrespectful and inappropriate.