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+--- Thread: The journey into an unknown world (/thread-4859.html)
RE: The journey into an unknown world - Petrasti - 10-09-2025
(10-09-2025, 04:01 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(09-09-2025, 09:17 PM)Petrasti Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you consider EVA an unquestionable basis for translating the Voynich, then things will get difficult.
Just to clarify and avoid confusion, Eva is just a convention for representing the Voynich glyphs using single-case Latin characters. It does not mean that the Voynich glyphs represent these Latin characters.
The same convention is used here by the forum software to show the Voynich glyphs using the eva font.
By the way, I am curious how you figured out to represent the Sh character as you do it. I simply use "Sh"
I find the tilde symbol closer to the original.
On my keyboard,(all in Eva Hand 1) I type the "c" then press the key to the right of the Ctrl key, along with the asterisk/plus/tilde key next to Enter and later the "h"
RE: The journey into an unknown world - Petrasti - 10-09-2025
I forgot one point about why I think we're dealing with a Celtic language. In the surviving Celtic languages, the "a" is pronounced in two ways. We find the same in the voynich manuscript
a and y
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I found a very nice website that explains Gaelic and its pronunciation. When you hear the Celtic language, it's pretty much as "crazy" as the Voynich. And you also understand why the Celtic languages is still not compatible with the Latin alphabet. Maybe this could explain the voynich alphabet, too.
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if you hear the following sentence in gaelic "mura h-eil ise ga iarraidh, ithidh mise e" (Nr. 4)
listen to the word "ighidh" (will eat) then look at page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. first line, from the voynich manuskript
you will find the word cthses (tgheh) both words sound very similar
I would translate the first line as follow:
fachar ykal ar ytaiin c+hol c+hor cthses y kor c+hordy
fagal from irish fag/fagann/fagail = to leave
a kar = his root
al atam = (still not solved)
ghol ghor = leaf flower
tghih = eat
a kol = his bud
ghorba = something like leafy from leaf
If a "tam?" of the leaves leaves its root, eat its leafy bud
RE: The journey into an unknown world - dashstofsk - 11-09-2025
(10-09-2025, 08:56 PM)Petrasti Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When you hear the Celtic language, it's pretty much as "crazy" as the Voynich. And you also understand why the Celtic languages is still not compatible with the Latin alphabet.
Untrue. Many sounds in Gaelic are made up using combinations of letters, which initially might seem a bit odd to a newcomer. Also consecutive consonants sometimes require a hidden vowel to be sounded. For instance in the word 'gorm' you gave before the pronounciation is like 'gorem'. If you were to take the trouble to find out something of this language group then you would see that spelling and pronunciation are rather consistent.
(10-09-2025, 08:56 PM)Petrasti Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.mura h-eil ise ga iarraidh, ithidh mise e
The letter H in Gaelic is usually there to influence the sound of a consonant ( as is the case also in English with CH, SH, TH etc. ), sometimes also forcing the whole character pair to be silent. The word 'ithidh' you gave illustrates this nicely. The 'th' is pronounced something like H, 'dh' is silent.
You cannot possibly have any serious reason to believe that 'ithidh' has any similarity with any word in the VMS.
RE: The journey into an unknown world - Petrasti - 11-09-2025
I think we've misunderstood each other here. I'm not talking about the Gaelic language, which today has a standardized script and thus uses its own writing system with Latin letters, recognized by all speakers, to express precisely those sounds that cannot actually be expressed with Latin letters. I don't mean the letter combination that we accept as universally valid in textbooks and on the internet. I'm talking about the fact that in the Middle Ages a group of people tried to write down the sounds they couldn't express with the Latin alphabet, in order to write down their language for which there was no written form. The language example that I attached yesterday simply shows how complex the Celtic language varieties are and how difficult it is to represent this with the Latin alphabet.
To represent the sounds of Celtic languages in the Latin alphabet, a standardized letter arrangement is still required today. That's exactly what I meant by "still not compatible"
I'm attaching a few more "google hits" regarding Celtic language and Latin alphabet
"the Celtic languages faced problems with the Latin script, as the Celts did not have their own widely used writing system, and the Latin script they used for inscriptions such as coins or maps was only partially suited to their specific sounds and grammar. Problems arose because the Latin script could not represent all Celtic phonemes, which led to differences in transcription and hampered readability and the development of a standardized orthography."
"The Latin script was not ideal for representing the specific sounds and phonemes of Celtic languages. Therefore, adjustments had to be made."
"Problems between Gaelic languages and the Latin script arise because the Latin alphabet was not designed for the phonetic characteristics of Gaelic languages, leading to inaccurate representations of the language. This is due to the fact that Gaelic languages already had a complex structure when attempts were made to write them with Latin letters, and certain sounds and grammatical forms do not occur in Latin."
RE: The journey into an unknown world - dashstofsk - 11-09-2025
Most probably very few languages are completely compatible with the Latin alphabet. English supposedly has 23 different vowels sounds. More if you include regional speech. Old English also created the characters eth, thorn, yogh and wynn because their sounds could not be represented by the Latin alphabet. Today we no longer use the eth and thorn characters but we have retained their different sounds and write both 'th'. That makes English "still not compatible" also. I don't think any Gaelic speaker would recognise your claim that their language is "crazy" or "incompatible".
RE: The journey into an unknown world - Petrasti - 11-09-2025
Please stop attributing things to me that I neither meant nor said in this context.
I hope for the sake of the small group of Celtic speakers that my explanations are correct and that this fantastic view of the world will find wider access to our world. (Since I come from southern Germany, we also speak of our past.) We can continue to discuss the possibility of a Celtic origin objectively. I'll add a few more words later that are consistent with the plant images.
RE: The journey into an unknown world - Petrasti - 14-09-2025
the gop chop - from the irish the beak the mouth.
the description of the leaf shape