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+--- Thread: Proposal: VMS is a copy of several books from the Latin Vulgate Bible (/thread-3369.html)
RE: Proposal: VMS is a copy of several books from the Latin Vulgate Bible - Voynichgibberish - 08-10-2020
My whole point in a nutshell is that the Voynich text is a random text of gibberish, which does not represent its source text as for words in word length nor letter order, however its a copy in this form! Yet the VMS is precisely copied this way where words from the source are scrambled in there letters and the vms vords do not represent at times the counter part words length. This would retain a Zipf Distrubution for a language but mask and obfuscate the language in use and its structure.
My simple test with Zipf for the unknown text which is gibberish proves my point that gibberish can relay meaningful information, retain a Zipfian distribution, but on its own it is pure gibberish.
What I believe is that David, Koen and Rene when discussing word order of other languages that is possible, however if the Voynich Manuscripts text was done in the way I describe, I know its impossible to decide word order form for the Voynich to compare it to languages of Roman or Germanic languages (ie, LAAFU etc). We simply don't know what the vords represent in Voynich, because from its source the vords could be different length and a scrambled gibberish token letter order. You cannot compare known word order of languages to an unknown language and word structure which the Voynich very well represents. We don't know if they are verbs, adjectives, nouns, adverbs, or prepositions! Plus the VMS could be confounded from a language as in the way I have been trying to relate to you folks.
RE: Proposal: VMS is a copy of several books from the Latin Vulgate Bible - Voynichgibberish - 08-10-2020
(08-10-2020, 08:39 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(08-10-2020, 06:08 AM)Voynichgibberish Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This Author probably made a personal notebook that never gained notoriety. This could be the original work of someone, which he only knew the content and he possessed the separate list.
But you started off suggesting in post 1:
Quote:The VMS is a copy of several books from the Latin Vulgate Bible:
Yet in scrambled form
Which is it?
Anyway.
Your proposal only makes sense if you have two texts with identical word frequency. You draw up a Zipf graph, overlay them, and see if they correspond identically.
But even this doesn't make sense - a word for word translation from,ie, English to Spanish, won't have identical word frequencies.
For example:
Padre Nuestro, que estás en el cielo, santificado sea tu nombre; venga a nosotros tu reino; hágase tu voluntad, en la tierra como en el cielo.
Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Two identical and very sacred texts, very different word frequencies, but identical meanings.
All the same David I did change the thrust of the post so that the text more likely is an original work, but to check in on the original proposal text I needed some text.
David, it is common sense that one most know the language for the Zipf distribution to work from its source text than you can unravel it to find out the content. If the language is foreign than use a translator which of course the word association would have a different frequency.
I feel that many here who have disagreed with me have come across with unconvincing and weak arguments which do not refute the evidence for the possibility that the VMS could have been manufactured in the way of the method I laid out. Yet you have strengthened my resolve that the VMS maybe done the way I describe.
RE: Proposal: VMS is a copy of several books from the Latin Vulgate Bible - ReneZ - 08-10-2020
(08-10-2020, 08:19 PM)Voynichgibberish Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(08-10-2020, 06:06 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I can only advise to read up as much as possible on the work that has been done before.
After that, one is in a better position to decide which way to go.
This is a very vague answer on the account that you agree with David. You should counter with a valid argument for your agreement.
There are two types of people taking part in discussions about the Voynich MS. Those who recognise good advice when they get it, and those who don't.