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+--- Thread: Experiments with interpretation of the labels. The label otol. (/thread-3258.html)
RE: Experiments with interpretation of the labels. The label otol. - -JKP- - 27-06-2020
(27-06-2020, 06:03 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think it would not be, since, as I said, they appear to be kinda "core" bigrams....
What can I say? I obviously agree.
Patterns in Voynichese (example uses a single folio, but the concepts apply to the manuscript in general): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Hints at biglyphs and the concept of modifiers: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Hints at biglyphs continued in more detail: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Core biglyphs: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Patterns of pairing: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Experiments with interpretation of the labels. The label otol. - Searcher - 27-06-2020
(27-06-2020, 06:03 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There are (ref. VQP) 8558 vords starting with "o", i.e. "o*" wildcard (neglecting standalone "o")Ok. I understand your division.
Of those:
2417 are ot*
2474 are ok*
360 are op*
240 are od*
89 are of*
(these are pre-gallows and pre-d), the subtotal is 5580 or 65%. I'd say these are all operators.
Next, there are:
1069 ol*
244 or*
538 ol (just two-character vord)
366 or (just two-character vord)
the subtotal is 2217, or 26%
I guess that ol* and or* are composites here, - in other words, "o" is not an operator here.
What remains are 661 occurrences, such as 173 oc*, 132 oe* etc.
So my first guess would be that every vord-starting o beyond that in basic bigrams ol and or is a relational operator.
Let's take the starting "o" for the conjunction "with" (as you suggested) before the following f, k, t, p, d. Thus, we get the conjunction that appears before the words that begin only with the same five letters. Why?
RE: Experiments with interpretation of the labels. The label otol. - Searcher - 27-06-2020
P. S. I must confess that I considered a possibility that the starting "o" is just a conjoined article, such as la, le. I saw sometimes in French manuscripts such conjoinings (laterre, lemonde, etc.)
RE: Experiments with interpretation of the labels. The label otol. - Searcher - 27-06-2020
Anyway, otol on f68r1 seems odd with "with" or without it.
RE: Experiments with interpretation of the labels. The label otol. - -JKP- - 27-06-2020
(27-06-2020, 08:04 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
P. S. I must confess that I considered a possibility that the starting "o" is just a conjoined article, such as la, le. I saw sometimes in French manuscripts such conjoinings (laterre, lemonde, etc.)
In Greek, "o" is a masculine article, so the idea of a one-char article is not unusual, and in older texts it was sometimes attached to the word following. In other languages it can be a conjunction, like "or".
RE: Experiments with interpretation of the labels. The label otol. - Anton - 27-06-2020
(27-06-2020, 07:28 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thus, we get the conjunction that appears before the words that begin only with the same five letters. Why?
I don't see it as any particular conjunction, but rather a relational operator that can be expressed perhaps with a few different conjunctions depending on the context. And I used the word "with" just as a general illustration. In fact, I considered the o-prefix to designate "to", "towards" or "for". Details are better referred to in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Why a relational operator appears before vords beginning only with five letters (in fact, not just five, but not very many indeed, and more than half is just two - t and k) is a question leading to consideration that a relational operator can precede only a subset of vords (like, perhaps, only nouns?) and then it is reduced to the question why this subset of vords mostly begins with only two letter. And thinking over this question would not bring the thinker to the idea of simple substitution, that's for sure.
But, as I said above, at the moment this is just an interesting avenue which is yet unexplored. It needs deeper research and thorough critique.
RE: Experiments with interpretation of the labels. The label otol. - Searcher - 27-06-2020
(27-06-2020, 08:51 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why a relational operator appears before vords beginning only with five letters (in fact, not just five, but not very many indeed, and more than half is just two - t and k) is a question leading to consideration that a relational operator can precede only a subset of vords (like, perhaps, only nouns?) and then it is reduced to the question why this subset of vords mostly begins with only two letter. And thinking over this question would not bring the thinker to the idea of simple substitution, that's for sure.Then I invite you to experiments!
But, as I said above, at the moment this is just an interesting avenue which is yet unexplored. It needs deeper research and thorough critique.
RE: Experiments with interpretation of the labels. The label otol. - Anton - 27-06-2020
Unfortunately, I have very little time to do anything Voynich-related systematically.
RE: Experiments with interpretation of the labels. The label otol. - Searcher - 27-06-2020
(27-06-2020, 09:45 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Unfortunately, I have very little time to do anything Voynich-related systematically.Oh, yes! Me, too. I couldn't get to the forum and to my blog a long time, but I hope to post something here or there soon.
RE: Experiments with interpretation of the labels. The label otol. - Searcher - 02-07-2020
Do we have a thread about bigram method in the context mentioned by Anton?
Quote: For the simplest example, one may substitute not single letters but, say, bigrams. Take the word "date", if "da" maps to "po" and "te" maps to "lo", then "date" maps to "polo", and there's no 1:1 mapping between single characters (instead, it exists for bigrams). The decipherer would in vain consider the two "o" characters to be the same.