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15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Printable Version

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RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Ranceps - 21-11-2021

I wonder why the Runkelstein (Roncolo) Castle is not on the map as a building, but only as Non-MS art. Also I had some time so I decided to search for some more.


Gradara Castle (11th- 15th century; Gradara, Italy; mainly due to the presence of Sforza family)
[Image: 1920px-Gradara.jpg]

Castelvecchio (1354- 1376; Verona, Italy)
[Image: 2560px-Castelvecchio_full_view_verona.JPG]

San Marino fortifications (10th century ca.; San Marino)
[Image: passeggiate-mura-san-marino.jpg]

Carimate Castle (14th century; Carimate, Italy; Visconti/Sforza influence)
[Image: 640px-Carimate_Castle.jpg]

RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - MarcoP - 21-11-2021

I think that at least San Marino and Gradara were rebuilt in the last 100 years or so.

San Marino:
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Gradara:
   

RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Koen G - 21-11-2021

(21-11-2021, 08:00 AM)Ranceps Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I wonder why the Runkelstein (Roncolo) Castle is not on the map as a building, but only as Non-MS art.

Because I started it off just collecting art, and only added extant buildings afterwards by popular demand Smile


About Carimate castle, the swallowtail part is in a different brick than the rectangular part, I'm not sure if these are original.
I added Castelvecchio Verona and Runkelstein to the castles.

RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Koen G - 27-11-2021

There are swallowtail merlons on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. on the Greek island of Patmos. This is the place where, according to tradition, John of Patmos received his apocalyptic visions.

[Image: 1024px-Chora_di_Patmos_con_il_Monastero_...ogo%22.JPG]

The monastery was built in the 11th century and fortified because of frequent attacks and raids on the island. The castle-like walls are original, but they have been expanded and restored in subsequent centuries. I have been unable to find when the merlons were added, and why they took this shape on an orthodox monastery.

RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Rtael - 19-02-2022

(21-11-2021, 12:55 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thanks Michelle, that's some solid research! The thread and map have been updated. This really cements Venice in second place after the Milan region and followed by Naples.

I do wonder why they drew "eastern" cities with swallowtail merlons. The association does not appear to be with Jerusalem per se, since for example they also show up on "Babilonia", which is the metaphorical antithesis of Jerusalem. The reason for this association may be of interest, since the VM was written well after the heyday of the Guelph-Ghibelline conflict.

Either way, we are now left with a paradoxical situation where, from the Italian perspective, the swallowtail merlon can signify both domestic and (apparently more generalized) foreign areas.

Almost makes sense to me. Lots of these Eastern cities are where crusades were happening and where Italians/westerners had influence. Depicting these places with many of the embellishments of home may be a way of declaring victory or incorporating new additions into the terra firma. (I feel like I am fair to say we have not seen an Eastern writer/artist actually depicting these things?)

RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Koen G - 19-02-2022

I think you're right, it's mostly Italians.

RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Aga Tentakulus - 19-02-2022

But this does not explain the German text and the crowns, which are most likely to be attributed to the Habsburgs.

RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Koen G - 19-02-2022

(19-02-2022, 12:12 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But this does not explain the German text and the crowns, which are most likely to be attributed to the Habsburgs.

You mean in the VM? I wouldn't go as far as to say that the inclusion of swallowtail merlons must mean it was made in Italy and/or by Italians. But of course knowing where swallowtail merlons were drawn is important knowledge to take into consideration along with other indicators.

RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - MichelleL11 - 20-07-2022

Hi, Koen:

Here is another manuscript illustration with swallowtail merlons which had been noted before but I didn't see it in our thread on this topic or in the map.

   

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It's folio 55r of our good friend Trinity College MS 0.2.48 (Gale's Herbarium).  The illustration is of St. Augustine recommending the use of a particular herb to exorcise demons and the page with the merlons shows the herb taking effect.

I ran across it reading Kieckehefer's Magic in the Middle Ages and wanted to add it to our collection/map.  The catalogue dates it to the 14th century, possibly German, although various dating is discussed in the thread dedicated to this manuscript at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (first noticed by Rene and where Marco also noted the merlons).

Thanks,

Michelle

RE: 15thc perception on swallowtail merlons? - Koen G - 21-07-2022

Thanks for bringing this one up, Michelle, still one of my favorite manuscripts. I guess the problem is that "possibly German" is hard to put on a map. Also, if I remember correctly, we noticed a focus on the south of Italy in certain sections, so I wouldn't be surprised if this MS is from Naples. Or Milan, or Venice, or even Germany. But it's hard to put this on the map.