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+--- Thread: f27v (/thread-782.html)
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RE: f27v - -JKP- - 02-09-2017
One of the plants I mentioned in post 3 is Vernonia anthelmintica, but didn't have time to include details about the plant, so here is some additional info...
The three parts of the VMS plant that especially caught our attention were the flowers (because the centers have been emphasized), the blue things (maybe fruits?), and the unusual root.
Vernonia anthelmintica flowers are violet and purple-colored flowers that are narrower on the lower part with a puff on the end and a darker indented center (the center is in shadow, making it look like an eye if you get farther back from it).
Some pics:
Flowers (side) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Flower (top) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Leaves (herbarium) You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Leaves You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The seeds are used to treat roundworm, threadworm and other problems of the digestive and lower intestinal system and kidneys. Also sometimes skin diseases and fevers.
Could the VMS root be a twisty colon? Could the eye in the colon be a tapeworm or some other kind of worm or an opening like the urethra?
And could the top be drawn flat because it's a wetland plant? (I've mentioned in blogs that some of the boles in the VMS might be associated with semi-aquatic plants with the tops being the surface of the water. I'm not sure all the boles mean this, some might mean a plant that grows from tubers or dies back, or is cut back in the fall. Just as there are a number of reasons for including snakes in herbal illustrations, there appear to be a number of reasons for including boles.)
Vernonia anthelmintica is a member of the aster family (also known as Conyza anthelmintica and many other synonyms) and most of the leaves are opposite but as can be seen from the herbarium specimen and the following drawings, it's a mixture of alternate and opposite
![[Image: 127632.jpg]](http://botanicalillustrations.org/ILLUSTRATIONS_HD_/127632.jpg)
![[Image: 258620.jpg]](http://botanicalillustrations.org/ILLUSTRATIONS_thumbnails/258620.jpg)
Was this plant known in the west in the Middle Ages? It grows in Africa, Pakistan, India, Nepal. It might have been. Some plants from western Pakistan were on the trade routes from Roman times (not so much those from eastern Pakistan) but it's difficult to determine which ones. Some of the African plants were also, but it tended to be those from around Ethiopia and those on the north coastal trade routes.
Vernonia anthelmintica seems to match well to the VMS plant on all counts except for those blue things. They might be intended as fruits, but it's unlikely that they are fruits from this plant which has seeds like dandelion seeds. Could they mean something else?
RE: f27v - Koen G - 02-09-2017
Those blue things are shaped very peculiarly, kind of like smurf hats, with a little lobe on top.
What makes the flowers look so special is that the rays around the red disks don't touch the outline. They create the illusion of a white circle, even though it's not drawn.
Now if these are eyes, then they have red irises. I wonder what this might mean. Maybe an animal known for its red eyes?
Still, it may not be eyes at all. If only we knew beforehand how much mnemonicsauce was used..
RE: f27v - -JKP- - 02-09-2017
Intestinal parasites are pretty creepy things...
If the plant is Vernonia anthelmintica, which was primarily used to treat parasite and other digestive system problems, maybe the flowers (and colon-like shape of the root) are meant to echo things like this:
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In fact, it occurs to me now that the "snake" root in the small-plants section isn't necessarily a snake. Maybe it's a plant used to treat tapeworm:
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RE: f27v - -JKP- - 02-09-2017
(02-09-2017, 01:59 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
What makes the flowers look so special is that the rays around the red disks don't touch the outline. They create the illusion of a white circle, even though it's not drawn.
Now if these are eyes, then they have red irises. I wonder what this might mean. Maybe an animal known for its red eyes?
Still, it may not be eyes at all. If only we knew beforehand how much mnemonicsauce was used..
I guess it's possible that it's simply the way the illustrator draws plants from the aster family. When viewed from the top, they are rather eye-like.
I notice the plant on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. has a similar narrow flower and center "eye" (and, like f27v, looks like it may be from the aster family).
RE: f27v - Koen G - 02-09-2017
I was looking at the plant again, thinking: if there is a mnemonic in the upper part, where is it?
We've got a branch on the left and one on the right, each with one flower. The flower head is drawn in perspective, with the "eye" facing properly up and not staring straight at the viewer.
Then there is one branch in the middle without leaves, but with three flowers. Their "eyes" are circles, facing us directly. Both flowers on the side have two blue attachments each, the one in the middle doesn't. The flower on the left bends over towards the one in the middle, while the one on the right stands tall.
RE: f27v - Anton - 02-09-2017
Not bad. I'm not sure of the exact notion. The most general would be "family", but it's difficult to google out something on this account, because "family" is a biological term in itself, - thus plenty of clutter yields.
I agree that this could represent birth, but family, or something like that, is more "manifesting" here, I think.
RE: f27v - -JKP- - 02-09-2017
(02-09-2017, 10:04 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Not bad. I'm not sure of the exact notion. The most general would be "family", but it's difficult to google out something on this account, because "family" is a biological term in itself, - thus plenty of clutter yields.
I agree that this could represent birth, but family, or something like that, is more "manifesting" here, I think.
Haha, it's funny, one of the uses for the plant I mentioned, V. anthelmintica, is birth control, but I didn't mention it because it's fairly far down on the list of uses (it's primarily a vermifuge) plus there are tons of plants that were used for birth control (it's not specific to this plant), but this particular use might not be a good fit anyway, because the idea of "family" (at least in the middle ages) is the opposite of birth control UNLESS an image like this is about limiting one's family (one kid) in which case there are quite a number of plants that would qualify in terms of use (but unfortunately not in terms of morphology).
I have to admit the flower rays do look rather halo-like, but it would be challenge to draw flowers that looked like heads and still make them look like flowers (especially if it is an aster, which has flowers like this) so I guess we can't entirely discount a Christian reference, even though there is a relative lack of Christian references overall.
RE: f27v - Anton - 02-09-2017
Yes, I think that's correct: if family, then it shoud be some specific family, not a common low class family (which would usually have several children). So maybe a nobility family, or a "family with a history" (mythical reference etc.)
RE: f27v - Koen G - 03-09-2017
It could also refer to birth, a newborn, the firstborn, child care...
If it refers to birth, the answer likely lies in a medicinal use. However, as you remarked before, it doesn't refer to the act of childbirth.
Now if it's about a newborn, things get more complicated. Imagine that the plant is henna like JKP said. Henna was not only used in South Asia, but also in the eastern and southern Mediterranean. It was in high demand and it was traded. I haven't studied its historical use, but it's strongly connected to fertility and celebrations.
But I haven't got a preference yet. I like your ash suggestion as well. Ash is a strong but flexible kind of wood and extremely resistant. This made it to ne used in specialised circumstances. A famous example is that bows were often made of ash.
Might the root refer to some wooden element usually made of ash?