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+--- Thread: f2r (/thread-778.html)
RE: f2r - Anton - 18-03-2018
Are you sure that it is teasel in the Greek MS?
RE: f2r - Koen G - 18-03-2018
Pff I can't access my own link anymore, I hate when sites do that "session timed out" kind of thing. They had the names of the plants in the legend, and this one said "teasel" in French.
Here's the same page on Gallica: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: f2r - MarcoP - 18-03-2018
(18-03-2018, 09:13 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Pff I can't access my own link anymore, I hate when sites do that "session timed out" kind of thing. They had the names of the plants in the legend, and this one said "teasel" in French.
Here's the same page on Gallica: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Below the illustration there is a later (but still ancient) Latin annotation: Virga Pastoris. This too is consistent with "teasel", but I can't exclude the name was applied to other plants as well.
This manuscript has great illustrations, thank you, Koen!
RE: f2r - Anton - 18-03-2018
In my oipinion, neither the VMS nor the Greek image looks like teasel. I can't figure out the Greek label, especially the first letter, what's that: ωιγαραλοτισ ?
Ah, thx Marco, it did't occur to me it's Latin
RE: f2r - Anton - 18-03-2018
Technically what is not like teasel here is the absence of leaves round the bud (which leaves to me seem a very characteristic detail of teasel).
Looking at mnemonics, several folk names of Dipsacus fullonum (from Pritzel) feature "Karde-" or "Karte-" which, as far as I understand, is something like heckle or ripple.
Although what has given this name to the actual plant must be the buds, pursuing the "leaves mnemonics" trail - do the leaves here look like ripple?
The roots do not, this I can tell firmly.
RE: f2r - Anton - 18-03-2018
Here's however what Pliny writes of teasel (25:108):
"Labrum Venereum is the name given to a plant that grows in running streams. It produces a small worm, which is crushed by being rubbed upon the teeth, or else enclosed in wax and inserted in the hollow of the tooth. Care must be taken, however, that the plant, when pulled up, does not touch the ground."
RE: f2r - -JKP- - 19-03-2018
(18-03-2018, 08:13 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The roots of teasel in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (15thC Constantinople) reminded me of the roots of this plant:
Good find. It's definitely a similar approach to drawing the roots.
RE: f2r - Wladimir D - 19-03-2018
I am concerned about the similarity of the roots of plants 2r and 14v, only the heads and tails of snakes were chopped off at the root of 14v.
RE: f2r - Diane - 19-03-2018
Teasels were chiefly useful for brushing woven fabrics to raise the nap - making the cloth feel thicker and softer.
That use is well known to industrial archaeology and related technical studies. I see that the wiki article's author thought to add a note about it too.
Quote:Fuller's teasel (the cultivar group Dipsacus fullonum Sativus Group; syn. D. sativus) was formerly widely used in textile processing, providing a natural comb for cleaning, aligning and raising the nap on fabrics, particularly wool.
It differs from the wild type in having stouter, somewhat recurved spines on the seed heads. The dried flower heads were attached to spindles, wheels, or cylinders, sometimes called teasel frames, to raise the nap on fabrics (that is, to tease the fibres).
By the 20th century, teasels had been largely replaced by metal cards, ...[but] some people who weave wool still prefer to use teasels for raising the nap...
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Just for the record, I didn't conclude that the maker's intention was to evoke the teasel, but Koen's ms is well worth knowing. Thanks Koen.
RE: f2r - -JKP- - 19-03-2018
The primary use for teasel was not for raising the nap on woven fabrics, but for carding the wool before it was spun and woven. Raw wool is tangled and messy. Teasel was used to align the raw wool fibers, a necessary pre-step so it could be be spun more readily and evenly without jamming, lumping, or breaking.
It was so difficult to duplicate the properties of teasel heads that they were used in machinery right up until the 20th century.