+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: "+ma+ria+ " research in f116v (/thread-4867.html)
Pages:
1
2
RE: "+ma+ria+ " research in f116v - BessAgritianin - 15-08-2025
(14-08-2025, 10:52 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't see a link to alchemy.
There are many variants of the "peperit" charm, with or without Maria: Holy women giving birth... No need for alchemy.
Codex S386 doesn't list any alchemy content in its description: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Thank you for your observation.
My initial intention is not to compare the Swiss manuscript's use of "maria", where the use is medical or devotional.
My focus is on a broader understanding of " maria" in VM -foil 116v where the context "balneo Maria, plaster, even alchemical symbolism might differ from the Swiss example.
What do you think about it? Is the term "maria" in foil116 v a practical remedy, a symbolic reference or something else?
RE: "+ma+ria+ " research in f116v - Aga Tentakulus - 15-08-2025
‘Maria’ is just a name here.
In connection with the word before Maria, the meaning is:
‘Maria standing above everything’
"maria" ist hier nur ein Name.
Im Zusammenhang mit dem Wort vor Maria, ist die Bedeutung:
"über allem stehende Maria"
RE: "+ma+ria+ " research in f116v - Koen G - 15-08-2025
It's normal in the Catholic faith to invoke Maria in all kinds of ways. She is considered to plead to God on behalf of humans. She knows the human condition as well as the heavenly. Especially in areas where Marial devotion is strong, her name would be the first to come to mind when you require any kind of divine favor.
RE: "+ma+ria+ " research in f116v - nablator - 15-08-2025
(15-08-2025, 04:21 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My focus is on a broader understanding of " maria" in VM -foil 116v where the context "balneo Maria, plaster, even alchemical symbolism might differ from the Swiss example.
What do you think about it? Is the term "maria" in foil116 v a practical remedy, a symbolic reference or something else?
I see plausible alchemy themes in several places but f. 116v is too messed-up to understand what it is about. In the context of what looks like a typical charm, with magic words ending with "ix" and crosses, the most obvious interpretation of the word "maria" is religious. Names were not capitalized, usually, so what was meant could very well be "Maria".
One thing that might be relevant is the word before it, "al(ki)a" where the "k" and "i" are (maybe) fused together and the loop over the k is missing, so it's not obvious at all that they should be read as "k" and "i" but I see no better alternative. Is this a shortened "alkemia"? Maybe. In a charm, magic words don't have to make the same kind of sense as in a recipe that could have mentioned "balneo marie" clearly.
RE: "+ma+ria+ " research in f116v - zachary.kaelan - 15-08-2025
(14-08-2025, 12:20 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."+adrus+ydrus+adros+adrusia+"
The extremely repetitive letter orderings remind me of Voynichese.
Code:
<f3r.4,+P0> schey.chor.chal.chag.cham.cho(11-08-2025, 08:57 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Many charms include crosses as well, so yes, the line on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. does look like a charm.
That makes me wonder, with the lack of crosses in the Voynichese text, if there's a specific word or symbol meant to represent one.
RE: "+ma+ria+ " research in f116v - BessAgritianin - 16-08-2025
(15-08-2025, 09:21 PM)zachary.kaelan Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(14-08-2025, 12:20 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."+adrus+ydrus+adros+adrusia+"
The extremely repetitive letter orderings remind me of Voynichese.
Code:<f3r.4,+P0> schey.chor.chal.chag.cham.cho
(11-08-2025, 08:57 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Many charms include crosses as well, so yes, the line on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. does look like a charm.
That makes me wonder, with the lack of crosses in the Voynichese text, if there's a specific word or symbol meant to represent one.
The VM script incorporates domains such as herbals, cosmology, pharmacy.
There is no evidence of religious or prayer -related content.
My interpretation is that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a sophisticated formulation containing oil, wax, Mercury and herbs.
The cross marking are likely operational sigils with one or both of the following roles:
A. Pharma operator ADD- parallels exist in alchemical manuscripts: "+ M= add Mercury"
B. Quantitative indicator- one part or half part etc.
Religious symbolism is unlikely given the lack of Christological references. Also the frequent depictions of nude female figures, positioned in fluid filled chambers and systems are unlikely to represent religious motifs.
RE: "+ma+ria+ " research in f116v - Dana Scott - 23-11-2025
(16-08-2025, 06:03 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(15-08-2025, 09:21 PM)zachary.kaelan Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(14-08-2025, 12:20 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."+adrus+ydrus+adros+adrusia+"
The extremely repetitive letter orderings remind me of Voynichese.
Code:<f3r.4,+P0> schey.chor.chal.chag.cham.cho
(11-08-2025, 08:57 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Many charms include crosses as well, so yes, the line on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. does look like a charm.
That makes me wonder, with the lack of crosses in the Voynichese text, if there's a specific word or symbol meant to represent one.
The VM script incorporates domains such as herbals, cosmology, pharmacy.
There is no evidence of religious or prayer -related content.
My interpretation is that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a sophisticated formulation containing oil, wax, Mercury and herbs.
The cross marking are likely operational sigils with one or both of the following roles:
A. Pharma operator ADD- parallels exist in alchemical manuscripts: "+ M= add Mercury"
B. Quantitative indicator- one part or half part etc.
Religious symbolism is unlikely given the lack of Christological references. Also the frequent depictions of nude female figures, positioned in fluid filled chambers and systems are unlikely to represent religious motifs.
The following reference contains a nice example of Gothic miniscule writing with "+" charms included in the text:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: "+ma+ria+ " research in f116v - Doireannjane - 26-11-2025
This last bit could be evidence of a meeting and/or exchange of information and goods, including this manuscript (a botanical and medicinal survey with instructions). Or this "charm" could indicate the next stop on a trip possibly. Or serve as instruction for reader to look closely at what comes from under the earth. The roots, soil, underground creatures and other straggling things.
My understanding of the script is possibly Galician or Celtiberian descendent, indicative of a possible port/sailor language. I translated from latin with Irish phonetics for just the "a" and "o" sounds, which are opposite.
Meaning "Maria" could be "moro" and referencing Moors or Mouros:
"In Portugal, mouro (feminine, moura) may refer to supernatural beings known as enchanted moura, where "Moor" implies "alien" and "non-Christian". These beings were siren-like fairies with golden or reddish hair and a fair face. They were believed to have magical properties.[45] From this root, the name moor is applied to unbaptized children, meaning not Christian.[46][47] In Basque, mairu means moor and also refers to a mythical people.[48]"
"For unknown reasons they were forced to take refuge under the earth, and now they are usually seen by people in the surroundings of castros and long barrows. The Mouros work with gold, silver and gemstones with which they make up enormous treasures that are protected by cuélebres."
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For