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+--- Thread: Month names collection / metastudy (/thread-4751.html)
RE: Month names collection / metastudy - Koen G - 15-06-2025
(Today, 05:58 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Of course there's the fact that the Voynich annotator only added a tittle to one of the two occurrences of May....
Since May and Mai are spelling variants with presumably the same pronunciation, this month will almost always match (green in the doc). So finding one with the diacritic is very interesting. For example, we could see if this is purely a French thing or not.
By the way, does anyone have an idea why this might be there? (Gallica currently appears to be down so I cannot look at the MS). Does the writer "cap" other y's? Is it like the two dots on ij? Does it indicate a difference in pronunciation?
RE: Month names collection / metastudy - davidma - 15-06-2025
(11 hours ago)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(Today, 05:58 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Of course there's the fact that the Voynich annotator only added a tittle to one of the two occurrences of May....
By the way, does anyone have an idea why this might be there? (Gallica currently appears to be down so I cannot look at the MS). Does the writer "cap" other y's? Is it like the two dots on ij? Does it indicate a difference in pronunciation?
I based the list off the headings of the journal, where may is written with the diacritic. However, in the main text i.e. "on the 10th of may, 10 sacks of grain to [...]" may is written without the diacritic, which I think is interesting in itself. The diacritic may is on folio 22r
RE: Month names collection / metastudy - Koen G - 15-06-2025
(11 hours ago)davidma Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I based the list off the headings of the journal, where may is written with the diacritic. However, in the main text i.e. "on the 10th of may, 10 sacks of grain to [...]" may is written without the diacritic, which I think is interesting in itself. The diacritic may is on folio 22r
At first glance, it looks like a blocked "dot" on the left stroke of "y", but the writer doesn't use this anywhere else. And he dots his i's with a long, hardly perceivable line.
RE: Month names collection / metastudy - davidma - 15-06-2025
(10 hours ago)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(11 hours ago)davidma Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I based the list off the headings of the journal, where may is written with the diacritic. However, in the main text i.e. "on the 10th of may, 10 sacks of grain to [...]" may is written without the diacritic, which I think is interesting in itself. The diacritic may is on folio 22r
At first glance, it looks like a blocked "dot" on the left stroke of "y", but the writer doesn't use this anywhere else. And he dots his i's with a long, hardly perceivable line.
I wonder if the dot/diacritic could be some sort of embellishment, because it certainly looks that way for 15th century french, and whoever wrote it on the VM decided to add one perhaps for aesthetic rather than linguistic reasons.
RE: Month names collection / metastudy - Aga Tentakulus - 15-06-2025
You mean something like this.
It's a dialect thing. Y with dots. Here, the i changes to ü in terms of tone. But also the double ii, as in (gsii / bii etc.)
Y with dots is also regionally the old (ü).
RE: Month names collection / metastudy - Aga Tentakulus - 15-06-2025
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The different letters determine whether something is pronounced sharply or long.
As mentioned, this varies depending on the region.
RE: Month names collection / metastudy - davidma - 15-06-2025
(10 hours ago)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You mean something like this.
It's a dialect thing. Y with dots. Here, the i changes to ü in terms of tone. But also the double ii, as in (gsii / bii etc.)
Y with dots is also regionally the old (ü).
The sign on the y in the VM is not an umlaut, it is quite clearly a circumflex accent, so I feel it is much closer to the dotted y rather than the double dotted one. The months names also belong quite convincingly to the general french speaking world of the time rather than the german-speaking area.
RE: Month names collection / metastudy - ReneZ - 15-06-2025
I have no great means to add much to this discussion from where I am right now, but I would suggest that any proposed list should at least include one (ideally two) of:
- a 'b' in April
- something similar to 'yong' or 'yony'
- octembre instead of octobre
Lists that get all three wrong are not likely to be helpful at all.
RE: Month names collection / metastudy - Koen G - 15-06-2025
(9 hours ago)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Lists that get all three wrong are not likely to be helpful at all.
I agree that some minimum requirement is necessary. But if we want at least two of the criteria you outlined, we're still far off. In the current list, only the astrolabe (if it is transcribed correctly) has both "jong" and "octembre". None of them have "b" in "avril".
I would also say that the option of "yony" must be disregarded. The final letter is "g".
RE: Month names collection / metastudy - nablator - 15-06-2025
(Yesterday, 07:36 PM)davidma Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maŷ
First time I see a ^ above y in a French book.
On f. 7r and 8v they are more like y^. Go figure.
f. 7r:
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f.8v:
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f. 22r:
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