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+--- Thread: Castle Runkelstein & The Vintlers (/thread-4644.html)
RE: Castle Runkelstein & The Vintlers - 008348dc760f858fd668476b75fb6f - 25-04-2025
(25-04-2025, 11:29 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I wonder if the twin-tail mermaid was the usual depiction?
Also, there is a proper Batman there! I love this MS.
I have a *vague* recollection about seeing another double tail mermaid in another unrelated VMS, wait I just found my notes.
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RE: Castle Runkelstein & The Vintlers - Aga Tentakulus - 25-04-2025
Is it really a woman with a fish tail?
RE: Castle Runkelstein & The Vintlers - R. Sale - 25-04-2025
That's a good one. Clearly, the exception proves the rule. It is a woman with a crown holding two fish. Likewise, the VMs must be examined with the same level of detail.
Mermaids are half fish - from the waist down. Not from the knees down - like the VMs. The VMs is not a mermaid, it is something else. She is the mythical Melusine in her less dragon-like, more mermaid-like, Luxembourgian representation. The various Valois rulers of the VMs C-14 era claimed her as an ancestor [Jean de Berry, Philip the Good].
RE: Castle Runkelstein & The Vintlers - JustAnotherTheory - 19-03-2026
Great find and great theory. The entire place is richly decorated and full of heraldic elements, which ties in nicely to the theory that the VMS plants are heraldic elements in disguise:
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I did the virtual tour as well and noticed this nice looking swallowtail merlon castle fresco:
There's a bomb-looking structure as well, that looks like a VMS root:
RE: Castle Runkelstein & The Vintlers - hatoncat - 02-04-2026
(25-04-2025, 09:30 AM)008348dc760f858fd668476b75fb6f Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The brothers relationship started to fracture by 1407 with one aligning to the duke of Austria and the other with local nobility.
Hans is generally more closely aligned to the catholic religious orthodoxy. His manuscripts "Die Plumen Der Tugent" (1411) and "Buch der Tugend" (1419) can be summarized as a rallying call for orthodoxy and a shunning of superstition and the suspicious practices of breakaway groups like the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , the Beguins, the Free Spirit Movement etc, at this time the church is actively fighting a pre-reformation movement.
The Vintler family have the money, the location, the swallow tailed castle and the fractious dynamics to commission an manuscript. They were alive at a time when the catholic church actively destroyed opposition to its orthodoxy. One brother aligns to the orthodoxy, one doesn't.
Is the MS a good candidate for "occult" or secret knowledge? I'd say yes, there are other prior examples of the sort of information that the MS is attempting to communicate (that we can reasonably guess at based on the imagery). The astrological tables are somewhat eccentric but they appear to portray days, zodiac signs, events in the religious year, metonic/lunar/solar cycles etc. These are all things that would have been present in religious almanacs of the previous 100 years and were important for calculating the moveable religious feasts and observances. Other aspects of the book concern plants and preparations, likely within some sort of medical and perhaps alchemical context. The VMS is notable for one thing though, the omission of an anthropomorphized deity. Essence seems to flow from stars and planets, God appears to be absent.
The identified knowledge existed prior to the 1400s, the difference by the time the MS comes about is that the Catholic church is actively trying to stamp out anything that it deems as contrary to it. Many of the splinter sects disappear around this time, for some the only evidence of their existence during this period turns up in inquisition confessions. Hans Vintler's Buch Der Tugend ends up directly feeding into the with hunts over the next century (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) when one of its wood cut panels is used to denote the witches mass.
That's the context, now some side by sides from the VMS and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
Some caveats, I'm not totally bought into this theory but I think it's interesting enough to mine further. The next post will compare VMS to castle Runkelstein imagery.
It's possible, as it would resemble the 1700s effort to hide a Masonic rite: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
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I do find fascinating how many wars in the 1400s were simultaneously taking place- the 100 Years War, the Wars of Lombardy, along with the Council of Basel (Florence) which eventually resolved the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. but nonetheless led to the Protestent Reformation.
"On 18 January 1460, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. issued the bull You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. which forbade any attempt to appeal papal judgements by general councils.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
There was also a marked decline in discipline within the church. Scholars note that the Western Schism effectively eroded the church's authority and its capacity to proclaim the gospel.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."
The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. that it was document on the Swiss Charter and formation is also interesting, because of its interest in preserving national knowledge while also concealing it from outside influences. The use of blue pigment seems interesting as a possible symbol of Swiss canton flags.
Edit: (added English You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
RE: Castle Runkelstein & The Vintlers - MarcoP - 03-04-2026
(02-04-2026, 05:49 PM)hatoncat Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I do find fascinating how many wars in the 1400s were simultaneously taking place
It seems those fascinating times never ended…
RE: Castle Runkelstein & The Vintlers - JoJo_Jost - 03-04-2026
What is the origin source of “aladaba”?
RE: Castle Runkelstein & The Vintlers - hatoncat - 03-04-2026
(03-04-2026, 03:57 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What is the origin source of “aladaba”?
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"Located in the Indian Ocean, the Aldabra Atoll is an outstanding example of a raised coral atoll. Due to its remoteness and inaccessibility, the atoll has remained largely untouched by humans for the majority of its existence. Aldabra is one of the largest atolls in the world, and contains one of the most important natural habitats for studying evolutionary and ecological processes. It is home to the largest giant tortoise population in the world. The richness and diversity of the ocean and landscapes result in an array of colours and formations that contribute to the atoll's scenic and aesthetic appeal."
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"The surname Aladaba has its roots in the rich tapestry of West African history, particularly within the Yoruba ethnic group in Nigeria. The name is believed to derive from the Yoruba language, where it may carry meanings related to nobility or leadership, reflecting the social roles of those who originally bore it. Historically, individuals with the surname Aladaba may have been associated with positions of authority or community leadership, as surnames in many African cultures often denote lineage and social status. Over time, the surname has evolved, with variations in spelling and pronunciation emerging as families migrated or adapted to different cultural contexts."
RE: Castle Runkelstein & The Vintlers - JoJo_Jost - 03-04-2026
I was talking about the source of this image:
RE: Castle Runkelstein & The Vintlers - JustAnotherTheory - 03-04-2026
Are you referring to this in f116v?