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+--- Thread: Maximum vord repetition (/thread-4381.html)
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RE: Maximum vord repetition - Aga Tentakulus - 10-10-2024
Aber was ist wenn gleiche Wörter im Kontext einen anderen Sinn ergeben.
Gleich ist nicht gleich gleich.
Sage es in einer Frage.
Ist gleich gleich gleich?
Es ist gleich / identisch
Er kommt gleich / später, kurz darauf
Es ist ihm gleich / egal / nicht so wichtig
Wer war das gleich / noch einmal / Nachfrage / bitte um Wiederholung.
But what if the same words make a different sense in context?
The same is not the same.
Say it in a question.
Is equal equal equal?
It is equal / identical
He comes the same / later, shortly after
It's the same / doesn't matter / not so important
Who was the same / again / demand / ask for repetition.
RE: Maximum vord repetition - R. Sale - 10-10-2024
(10-10-2024, 07:14 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.While I see the abundant repetitions, I do wonder whether this part is considered especially rich in them based on a visual impression, or if there is some metric that could be used to quantify it.
I wonder about this, because impressions may be subjective, and it is possible, even likely, that not all parts of the text have been looked at equally intensively, or even at all.
I made a rough pass through your transcriptions of the other circular segments in the zodiac part a while back, and the best I could find was that there were only a few segments that contained a single vord pair. This level of concentration appears to be unique.
In the "Five Scribes" paradigm, the zodiac is #4, pretty much exclusively. Other parts of the VMs text would potentially be from other sources, relevant to other topics.
The outer ring segment of VMs White Aries contains two vord pairings and three vord triplets in less than two lines of transcribed text. Do any recipes come close to that?
Given the number and order of such vord pairings, could this segment of text be matched to some similarly repetitious plain text saying or prayer relevant to the VMs era?
RE: Maximum vord repetition - R. Sale - 10-10-2024
Just for fun, if line breaks are inserted after EVA 'aiin', then there are three lines of rhyming text, followed by a fourth line.
RE: Maximum vord repetition - R. Sale - 11-10-2024
With the three lines that rhyme, this little text segment has a structure of the poetic rhyme scheme: AAAB.
Looking for medieval examples of such, there is the 'virelai', which included the AAAB scheme. This includes poems and songs.
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And in that article, a reference to single stanza examples: the bergerette.
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So, here's a little candidate for "block paradigm", and [can you believe it] we're back in Burgundy *again* - sort of.
RE: Maximum vord repetition - nablator - 11-10-2024
(10-10-2024, 07:14 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.While I see the abundant repetitions, I do wonder whether this part is considered especially rich in them based on a visual impression, or if there is some metric that could be used to quantify it.
Q13 has the lowest MATTR of all sections.
The lowest TTR of any line of transliteration is 0.5 (ignoring You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. with its repeated sequence of single glyphs):
f75r.38: qokeedy qokeedy qokedy qokedy qokeedy ldy
RE: Maximum vord repetition - HermesRevived - 11-10-2024
Among the many ways to look at this text:
I count 39 vords.
The midpoint is the stand alone letter [s] making two groups of 19.
* * *
olkeeody okody okeeedy oky eey okeodar okeoky oteody oto otol oteey ar yko oar aiin oekeeey okeokeokeody okeodar chy
s
aiin otokeoar os ar al otol al shckhy oteeeodar oteody otol aiin shoekey sal al ald cheeokeeo ??oeky choly
* * *
I note the intrusion of two sequences of vords with [t] rather than [k]. If we remove those we have standard lines of 8 vords each such as we find in Text A.
olkeeody okody okeeedy oky eey okeodar okeoky
[oteody oto otol oteey]
ar yko oar aiin oekeeey okeokeokeody okeodar chy
s
aiin otokeoar os ar al otol al shckhy
[oteeeodar oteody otol]
aiin shoekey sal al ald cheeokeeo ??oeky choly* * *
Perhaps this circular text is a set of shorter lines? Where to make the line breaks?
RE: Maximum vord repetition - R. Sale - 11-10-2024
(11-10-2024, 10:02 AM)HermesRevived Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Perhaps this circular text is a set of shorter lines? Where to make the line breaks?
My suggestion [Post #13] turns the circular text into a bergerette with an AAAB rhyme pattern. I know nothing of medieval French poetry and musical lyrics, but the information on virelai poetry is coincident in time and place with the results of several other VMs investigations within the C-14 dating range.
Finding a corresponding plain-text would be fantastic, but is there any comparative data base that preserves potentially relevant records, is it 'seek and ye shall find' some day, or is it something unique?
Besides the specific internal structure, the segment's various combinations are based on *five* different vords, so it's another addition to the set of fivers. It also has one of Stolfi's markers and a disguised papal association. Assuming that the VMs artist used these external elements as indicators of significance, there is every reason to pound the kapok out of this text segment, in an investigative sense, to see if something further develops.
RE: Maximum vord repetition - R. Sale - 12-10-2024
Going from music to composers, here are a couple interesting biographies. Just to show what was happening.
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Both lived through the first half of the 15th century and somewhat beyond. Both had Burgundian connections. And both were subdeacons, so definite church connections, a familiarity with traditions and some knowledge of events current in Burgundy during that time [Colette of Corbie].
And some historical background.
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RE: Maximum vord repetition - R. Sale - 16-10-2024
(09-10-2024, 08:55 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(09-10-2024, 03:51 AM)HermesRevived Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The Takahashi transcription of the outer ring, beginning at the decoration at 10:30:
It is very much outdated. No q on this page.
In my opinion:
olkeeody okody okeeedy oky eey okeodar okeoky oteody oto otol oteey ar yko oar aiin oekeeey okeokeokeody okeodar chy s aiin otokeoar os ar al otol al ShcKhy oteeeodar oteody otol aiin Shoekey sal al ald cheeokeeo ??oeky choly
?? might be ch, squeezed above the red paint. The new MSI of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. does not help much.
This version shows an AAAB type of rhyme scheme valid in the C-14 dates. Not sure if it qualifies as poetry. Or something like a prayer, perhaps. Or just four statements connected by "and".
olkeeody okody okeeedy oky eey okeodar okeoky oteody oto otol oteey ar yko oar aiin
oekeeey okeokeokeody okeodar chy s aiin
otokeoar os ar al otol al ShcKhy oteeeodar oteody otol aiin
Shoekey sal al ald cheeokeeo ??oeky choly