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+--- Thread: Do f58r/f58v show Currier languages evolving? (/thread-3916.html)
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RE: Do f58r/f58v show Currier languages evolving? - MarcoP - 27-12-2022
(27-12-2022, 10:20 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.These two marks tend to align most with the pharmaceutical text (yellow crosses) [...]
Hi Rene,
unless I messed up something in the top plot You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the bigram that makes f58 different from pharma is 'eo'. That bigram is typical of pharmacese, where it is three times more frequent than in f58 (~6% vs ~2%).
RE: Do f58r/f58v show Currier languages evolving? - ReneZ - 28-12-2022
(27-12-2022, 06:36 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(27-12-2022, 10:20 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.These two marks tend to align most with the pharmaceutical text (yellow crosses) [...]
Hi Rene,
unless I messed up something in the top plot You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the bigram that makes f58 different from pharma is 'eo'. That bigram is typical of pharmacese, where it is three times more frequent than in f58 (~6% vs ~2%).
That is right, of course, and this bigram was not part of the first plots.
In the PCA diagram, the two pages end up near the edge of the pharma cloud.
It seems as if one of the reasons why the two pages are different is the frequency of "qo", but that is perhaps also not the full story.
RE: Do f58r/f58v show Currier languages evolving? - ReneZ - 28-12-2022
(27-12-2022, 05:15 PM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(27-12-2022, 04:05 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This shows the fraction of "ed" bigrams over the pages. The light grey crosses are the zodiac pages, which we know are in the right order, and should realistically be of similar subject matter. Here we see the "ed" bigram count increase from zero to something distinctly non-zero.
The zodiac pages consist of circular text and labels, and the vast majority of these bigrams occur in the circular text, where also the increase is being observed. However, the increase is also seen in the labels. In the early signs, they do not occur. In the later signs they start to appear.
I guess the big question is whether there is a different feature that decreases as the ed bigram count increases.
Indeed, this is not yet clear. It is not even clear to me that "ed" is a unit in any form, or the ending of one unit followed by the start of another unit.
I attach the fractions plot (per page) for other bigrams including "eo", this time in 'standard Cuva'. It confirms Marco's observation about "eo" in f58r/v vs. the pharma pages.
Cuva HO is Eva qo, SO/SE are cho/che and ZO/ZE are sho/she.
I also attach another version of my PCA plot, where I made the following changes:
- It uses Cuva instead of Cuva1
- Each cross is a folio, not a page
- It uses the standard PCA algorithm, not my old 'hack'.
This should be very similar to Marco's plot. Not sure how 'close' this should be considered to be.
The blue cross near the green ones (Astro/Cosmo) is f58.
RE: Do f58r/f58v show Currier languages evolving? - Aga Tentakulus - 29-12-2022
@Nick
Turned page. Interesting theory.
But this would also mean that several plant representations come before Quire 20. Possibly some plants that are now at the beginning of the book would have been moved. Possibly the origin from Hand A to Hand B is in the sequence. Purely a game of thought.
For me, the turning of pages elsewhere is certain. Sense of the picture story.
RE: Do f58r/f58v show Currier languages evolving? - Aga Tentakulus - 29-12-2022
How would I judge the differences.
When I look at a story, I have a flow of words that repeat less often.
In a recipe or explanation, on the other hand, I see more repetition.
If I cut onions once here, they are simply apples later. I cook, chop, grate and mix again and again. Simply different material. Not in a story.