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+--- Thread: oiin? (/thread-3265.html)
RE: oiin? - Torsten - 02-07-2020
There are 6666 instances of 'ai' (94.2 %) and 335 instances of 'oi' (4.7 %).
6666 ai (94.2 %)
335 oi ( 4.7 %)
18 ri ( 0.3 %)
12 ki ( 0.2 %)
8 ei ( 0.1 %)
5 di ( 0.1 %)
3 hi
3 ti
(Takahashi transliteration via You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. or Voynich information browser)
RE: oiin? - Searcher - 02-07-2020
(02-07-2020, 10:02 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This was a bit tongue-in-cheek.Sorry for continuing of the off-top. You know such things is my weakness
It looks roughly like this (above the faces), and is probably the least readable word in the MS:
[f67v2 (t/o-like circle)]
I will check again what Theodore Petersen has. He inspected the original in the 1930's for difficult readings.
On my view, it looks like o tor ??Cag
As always, with the strange curls ƆƆƐ or ƆƆC.
RE: oiin? - Koen G - 02-07-2020
(02-07-2020, 11:33 AM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Did you get the transliterations directly from Takahashi's website or from the "Voynich information browser" ? There are generally considerable differences.
From the information browser. I should probably use the other one.
About the ambiguity between a and o, I was talking for example about the instances on f103v.
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That said, I have mostly been working with Herbal A before, so it may just be my unfamiliarity with this handwriting. I agree that there is no doubt that [oi] exists, be it much rarer than [ai].
RE: oiin? - Koen G - 02-07-2020
Looking at it again, I think there is some in between version of o/a which looks like it has the right side of [a], but without the little tail.
RE: oiin? - bi3mw - 02-07-2020
In Quire 20 (from folio 103r to folio 116r) I have 10 exact matches for "oiin" . You could take a closer look at them.
Or did you mean every occurrence of "oiin", also as a word part ( oiin_full.txt, 40 Occurrences ) ?
RE: oiin? - -JKP- - 02-07-2020
(02-07-2020, 12:21 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Looking at it again, I think there is some in between version of o/a which looks like it has the right side of [a], but without the little tail.
I have often wondered if there actually is an in-between o/a character, but never had enough time to compare the ambiguous ones to other sections to see if it was scribe-specific.
RE: oiin? - Koen G - 02-07-2020
Yeah, I'll just leave the "in between" forms as is. Probably Takahashi took the presence of a tail as the determining factor.
By the way, somehow I had a mental image of Takahashi as an older Japanese gentleman, but his website says "I'm an idiot who devoted himself to deciphering Voynich in college."
RE: oiin? - -JKP- - 02-07-2020
When I did my transcripts, I used the straightness of the stem as the determining factor for whether it was "a" or "o". If it swung around to the left on the bottom, I interpreted it as an "o". But even with this distinction, some were very difficult to tell apart.
RE: oiin? - bi3mw - 02-07-2020
Sorry, I took the wrong files in post #15, the information is now corrected. There are very few direct hits with "oiin" (10) and also the indirect hits ( including within words ) are not very common in Q20 (40). It would be a reasonable effort to check them individually.
(02-07-2020, 12:17 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.From the information browser. I should probably use the other one.In principle this would be the better choice, but Takahashi unfortunately did not edit the folios 109r to 110v. You would have to get them from the VIB in any case.
RE: oiin? - -JKP- - 02-07-2020
(02-07-2020, 10:02 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
I will check again what Theodore Petersen has. He inspected the original in the 1930's for difficult readings.
It almost looks like there is a shorter line of text above the main line (on the top-right when it's rotated), but again... it's very hard to tell.