+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: 116v blog comment (/thread-2661.html)
RE: 116v blog comment - Anton - 01-03-2019
(01-03-2019, 10:05 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't know if this is was what Diane was referring to
I don't think so, because my point is about the interleaving with Voynichese, not about the contemporariness. But for all that, I had stated it (I mean, my point as explained above) more than once , I think.
RE: 116v blog comment - nickpelling - 03-03-2019
Perhaps my previous comment was too roundabout.
I simply don't think we have yet built up a sufficiently nuanced understanding of the codicology of the Voynich Manuscript's 'big three' marginalia to be able to say precisely what happened to it to leave it in the state we now see it in.
Starting by asserting that it is obviously German, Latin, Voynichese, or even michitonese is surely just a recipe for disaster. The only part of these marginalia texts that seems unequivocally original and unemended to me is the "ahia maria" part, which would seem not to be German in any way, so I think there's clearly more foundational work waiting to be done here.
RE: 116v blog comment - Addsamuels - 02-03-2023
(01-03-2019, 10:30 AM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It has been argued (certainly by me, and without much doubt by numerous others) that most of the marginalia were originally by the same hand (though not the zodiac hand). There is also a weak case (from the 'p' in 'pm9') that the early quire numbers were by this same hand.Maria is a German word though?
It has further been argued by others (but not by me) that the apparent presence of Voynichese in the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia implies that the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. marginalia were by one of the main Voynichese hands. I'm sympathetic to this view, but I think it's probably wrong.
I don't know of anyone arguing for a German origin from the apparent German fragments in the marginalia. To look for am underlying language for f116v, it could perhaps be argued that you should start from the "ahia + maria" fragment, which I don't believe is to be found in anyone's German dictionary. :-)
Philip Neal once pointed out that the (supposed) German fragments in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and f116v appear to be in significantly different German dialects, which perhaps makes things even less clear.
RE: 116v blog comment - Koen G - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 01:37 AM)Addsamuels Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maria is a German word though?
That's kind of like saying "Jesus" is a German word. German speakers (and many others) will recognize and use the name, but it is not of German origin. The crucial part in Nick's comment is probably the combination with "ahia".
RE: 116v blog comment - Aga Tentakulus - 02-03-2023
To "Jesus"
Old spelling ca. 14th century Tyrol.
RE: 116v blog comment - Aga Tentakulus - 04-03-2023
Addendum.
It is not "ahia" but "altia" from "altus" which means exalted (above all) "exalted Mary".
RE: 116v blog comment - Anton - 04-03-2023
Does not look like "h" at all. It's either "b" or indeed an "l", but with something strange following it. I can see how you imagine the "t" there, but such "t" would have the curvature reverse to that observed in "t" in "te" or "portas". Which makes it less likely.
RE: 116v blog comment - Addsamuels - 04-03-2023
(04-03-2023, 03:14 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Does not look like "h" at all. It's either "b" or indeed an "l", but with something strange following it. I can see how you imagine the "t" there, but such "t" would have the curvature reverse to that observed in "t" in "te" or "portas". Which makes it less likely.alia is also a word, but I'm not sure of the grammar
RE: 116v blog comment - Helmut Winkler - 04-03-2023
It is abia, the b is like the other b's in the text and you can clearly see the i - dot over the i, the same as over the other i's, whatever abia may mean.
RE: 116v blog comment - Koen G - 04-03-2023
Altia would be worth considering if it were an attested form. Maybe you could argue that it is an abbreviation of something like "altissima". And for that it does not have the right marks. And "altissima Maria" doesn't appear to be a frequent phrase either.