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Picatrix - Printable Version +- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja) +-- Forum: Library and Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-35.html) +--- Forum: Codicology and Paleography (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-48.html) +--- Thread: Picatrix (/thread-1987.html) |
RE: Picatrix - -JKP- - 07-07-2017 Now that I have a readable copy of the Latin Picatrix (many thanks to Marco), I am fascinated by how much the drawings differ from the actual description in the text. The general feeling in the historic community seems to be that the panel of images was drawn by the same person who scribed the text, but when you read it, you get the feeling the illustrator was maybe given a brief description and could not necessarily read the text. The three figures represent the three decans of Aries (based on eastern astrology).
Maybe the illustrator only had a notion of what the drawings were supposed to be, explained briefly by the scribe/translator, and used other drawings as examples to get the general idea on paper. RE: Picatrix - MarcoP - 09-07-2017 Thank you JKP, your observations are very interesting. Some might be the result of the limited competence of the illustrators, but others are really difficult to explain. (07-07-2017, 09:27 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. For this specific passage, I see that the Arabic version seems different (p.70 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). A black man with red hair and a grim look, wearing a wooden bracelet and holding a hanger with red garments hanging on it. The Latin to English translation I posted above is ambiguous. Actually, in the Latin it is clear that it is the man to be "wrapped in red cloth." On the other hand, in the Arabic it is the staff (here called a "hanger") that has "red garments hanging on it". But in the Arabic, no sword is mentioned (instead, there's a bracelet, which might be related with the circular object in the Schifanoia fresco). Even more confusing, I guess. While this chapter (Book II.2) only lists the first three decans (those of Aries), chapter Book II.11 describes all the decans. Chapter 11 is the one illustrated by the better quality images. They are arranged in columns like this: 1a 3a 2a 1b (In the attached image, the woman with the child is the first decan of Taurus). We have four textual versions of the three decans (Latin ch.2, Latin ch.11, Arabic ch.2, Arabic ch.11). In Latin ch.11, the third decan has the ring (armillam) and the sword. In Arabic ch.11 (p.145 of the English translation) it's basically the same (bracelet and sword). In Krakow Picatrix f.193, the ch.11 third Aries decan holds a single weird object, that includes a ring. But no sword. RE: Picatrix - -JKP- - 09-07-2017 That's interesting, Marco. So that sack-like thing in his hand might be red garments (I would never have guessed), which would match more closely to the Arabic version than to the text that actually accompanies the drawing. RE: Picatrix - MarcoP - 09-07-2017 (09-07-2017, 09:49 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That's interesting, Marco. So that sack-like thing in his hand might be red garments (I would never have guessed), which would match more closely to the Arabic version than to the text that actually accompanies the drawing. Yes, that's what I think too. I edited my previous post with more confusing stuff
RE: Picatrix - Koen G - 09-07-2017 Interesting indeed. Might this indicate that this drawing actually accompanied an earlier version of the text? As I mentioned on JKP's blog, there is a clear Jewish influence in them - see Beth Alpha mosaics.
RE: Picatrix - MarcoP - 09-07-2017 (09-07-2017, 10:03 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Interesting indeed. Might this indicate that this drawing actually accompanied an earlier version of the text? As I mentioned on JKP's blog, there is a clear Jewish influence in them - see Beth Alpha mosaics. My personal opinion is that there is a clear no-idea-of-human-anatomy influence
RE: Picatrix - -JKP- - 09-07-2017 (09-07-2017, 09:40 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... I wonder if that weird thing is a yoke? RE: Picatrix - bi3mw - 18-04-2019 As Nablator already pointed out in another thread, one finds a text passage of the Picatrix in this composite manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Compared to two passages in the Picatrix: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ![]() I find this fact rather astonishing because I have never stumbled across excerpts from Picatrix in composite manuscripts ( I have already seen quite a few ). Do you know other examples ? RE: Picatrix - ReneZ - 18-04-2019 For what it's worth (and marginally OT) : it strikes me that the handwriting of BNF Lat 10272 is rather similar to the reconstructed handwriting in a recent blog post by JKP: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. RE: Picatrix - -JKP- - 18-04-2019 Quote:ReneZ: For what it's worth (and marginally OT) : Yes, except for the g and the extra-long curve on the VMS column-text ascenders, it's quite similar. I'm going to stick my neck out and make a guess (before looking at the manuscript) that it was written sometime between 1498 and 1508. This style of text was used into the late 1500s but... it looks to me like the folio that's posted in this thread might be parchment (based on the wrinkles near the inner margin), and the use of parchment was just about obsolete by the early 1500s. So... that's why I'm thinking very early 1500s (or very late 1400s, turn of the century). This weekend, when I have time, I'll sample this one. |