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+--- Thread: The thing (80v & 82r) (/thread-1196.html)
RE: The thing (80v & 82r) - Davidsch - 29-11-2016
you are so fast.....I was still editing the posting...
RE: The thing (80v & 82r) - Koen G - 29-11-2016
The problem is that in iconography, the navigator's instrument and the cornucopia blended together because they could both be attributes of Tyche or Fortuna figures, protective deities of travellers.
So no, a real cornucopia has nothing to do with the thing. But on coins etc, it has been given the shape of a cornucopia with a spike on top instead of fruit. Can't post images now, posting from phone.
VV: I like the miniature. We're talking about the animal on the left, right? One thing this interpretation has going for it is that there's definitely pointing at the sky involved.
RE: The thing (80v & 82r) - VViews - 29-11-2016
Koen Gh, the one on the left is the one, yes.
In a much less inspiring vein than ancient goddess attributes, I just remembered reading a long time ago that the thing might be some kind of clyster, enema or other therapeutic irrigation device.
I can't remember who said it though, so if anyone has a reference please post it here!
And also, there was a medieval device that was a kind of early showerhead or watering instrument. I'm not sure what they are called but one can be seen here:
![[Image: capture-d_c3a9cran-19.png]](https://voynichviews.files.wordpress.com/2016/11/capture-d_c3a9cran-19.png)
Ceiling fresco detail, Basilica of St Isidoro, Leon, Spain, 11thC.
RE: The thing (80v & 82r) - Koen G - 29-11-2016
The tip of the Thing has also reminded me of the tip of a torch. See for example these two from the villa of Poppeia, Nero's second wife.
![[Image: 17b4cdd01321a01abcbeefaf119ba8b2.jpg]](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/17/b4/cd/17b4cdd01321a01abcbeefaf119ba8b2.jpg)
![[Image: torchskull.jpg]](http://creadm.solent.ac.uk/custom/rwpainting/imagch8/torchskull.jpg)
RE: The thing (80v & 82r) - ReneZ - 29-11-2016
(29-11-2016, 02:26 PM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In a much less inspiring vein than ancient goddess attributes, I just remembered reading a long time ago that the thing might be some kind of clyster, enema or other therapeutic irrigation device.
May have been this: (possibly to be classified as 14+ or "parental guidance")
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: The thing (80v & 82r) - Davidsch - 29-11-2016
Ehm, wtf is that ms about ?
Wauw.
De balneis Puteolanis
Shelfmark
Ross.379
Author
Petrus de Ebulo, c. 1160-c. 1220
Date
sec. XIV med
RE: The thing (80v & 82r) - MarcoP - 29-11-2016
(28-11-2016, 09:21 PM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I've heard it described as bellows, or as part of a flower or bud, or as spinning equipment. Sorry for not referencing that better, I can't remember who said what or when.
I'm curious about everyone's opinions on this thing, and about the connections forum members may make with other objects.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., I once wrote the thing might be a poppy pod, but who knows?
![[Image: 163401.jpg]](https://stephenbax.net/wp-content/comment-image/163401.jpg)
RE: The thing (80v & 82r) - Koen G - 30-11-2016
Why would she hold out an enema like that though? Is it dirty? Is she trying to sell it? A champion of nether hygiene? Is she threatening the woman across the page?
RE: The thing (80v & 82r) - ReneZ - 30-11-2016
Well, why is she standing in some fluffy thing that is floating in the air?
There aren't many objects that look like what she's holding in her hand, the list is still short.
RE: The thing (80v & 82r) - VViews - 30-11-2016
MarcoP,
thank you for the poppy illustrations. The thing as a flower, pod, or other floral element is a very interesting possibility considering that medieval baths are often described as including fragrant/medicinal plants, and in light of the idea that many other elements in Q13 could also be interpreted as flowers, plants or parts of plants.
Also Q13 features several nymphs lying down, so the depiction of sedatives would not be surprising.
I remember vaguely that someone (EllieV maybe?) had also suggested poppy pods for the bulbs in f83v, although they are depicted differently.
Koen Gh,
although I'm still chuckling from reading your "voynich humor" posts, I'll try to answer that question seriously!
"Why would she hold out an enema like that though?"
To me the way she is holding the thing is just a motif in the very limited repertoire of Voynich poses, and does not indicate the actual way the objects are meant to be held: in medieval marginalia, lots of characters brandish objects in totally unpractical ways.
Whether we imagine that the Thing is an enema, an horologium, or cornucopia or whatever, the problem is the same: those objects are not meant to be held that way.
I believe the way the thing (and the cross on the other similar looking folio) is brandished here is modeled after a template of pose seen in several medieval manuscripts' marginal characters, in the upper left corner of folios. I'll try to post more about that later, no time now, sorry!