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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 01-09-2026
Trying to understand every detail of the Rosettes foldout can lead to a dead end, because some elements may simply reflect the author's whimsical choice—such as the section of crenellated wall connecting two of the lower spheres.
What matters is the forest, not the trees. And what the overall image conveys is the author's desire to show his conception of the universe and how astral influence is transmitted. The circles we see are the celestial spheres, as indicated by the fact that two of them are tent roofs and another features a baldachin, serving to represent celestial domes metaphorically as well. And the central sphere can be nothing other than the outermost sphere, where the fixed stars are located. And all those tubes we see represent the way astral influence is channeled—originating here and radiating throughout the universe all the way to Earth.
If I am asked which planet corresponds to each sphere, I say I do not know, because the author does not seem to have been much concerned with that. It does seem certain, however, that the upper-left sphere corresponds to the Moon, as we can see crescent shapes on it.
Throughout the codex, we see the sun, the moon, and stars—many stars. That is why I believe that, in the authors' conception, the planets do not play a significant role. Naturally, at that time, planetary conjunctions—such as that of Saturn and Jupiter—were highly significant for astrological predictions. However, as I mentioned, the astrology found in the Voynich manuscript is of a different nature; it appears to focus on the influence of the fixed stars and, perhaps, the Moon.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 02-09-2026
Some of the drawings in the foldout Rosettes that are hardest to interpret are those walls extending downwards, the houses stacked as if on a cliff, the tower whose base is not visible...These drawings, and a few others, lie outside the circle enclosing the castle and its circular wall.
If the castle circle represents the sphere of the Earth—as I believe it does, given its connection to the T-O map in the upper right corner—then the drawings outside the circle appear to be a mere whim of the author.
But I believe it is a deliberate whim—an attempt to represent, on a flat plane, the three-dimensionality of the Earth floating in space. By drawing those houses over the abyss or that tower without a base, the artist achieves a vertical profile that suggests there is nothing below. This creates the sensation that everything is suspended in space.
RE: No text, but a visual code - ololololo - 02-09-2026
(02-09-2026, 04:51 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.y drawing those houses over the abyss or that tower without a base, the artist achieves a vertical profile that suggests there is nothing below. This creates the sensation that everything is suspended in space.I don’t think so. I would assume that all Rosettes are depicted as objects floating in the air.
If you take a closer look, the Rosettes are mainly connected by something resembling rocks; this is clearly visible at the bridge between the Northwestern and Western Rosettes. These cliffs always have clear boundaries separating them from something that looks like waves (so I assume this might be a reference to water, but let’s forget about that for now). There is no flat surface anywhere.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 03-09-2026
(01-09-2026, 11:40 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Trying to understand every detail of the Rosettes foldout can lead to a dead end, because some elements may simply reflect the author's whimsical choice—such as the section of crenellated wall connecting two of the lower spheres.
So you see that as simply decorative additions? Do you think they chose that decoration because they were familiar with it? Personally, or through manuscript drawings? I don't know, I think the more details, the more we should be able to see in it to help us understand which details are important and which are not. We know that many drew crennelations of that style in locations where they did not generally occur, however it tells us something about the person who decided to draw it that way.
Quote:What matters is the forest, not the trees.
I sometimes think this too, and sometimes I even think some of the trees are there just to keep you from seeing the forest at all.
Quote:And what the overall image conveys is the author's desire to show his conception of the universe and how astral influence is transmitted.
Ok.
Quote:The circles we see are the celestial spheres, as indicated by the fact that two of them are tent roofs and another features a baldachin, serving to represent celestial domes metaphorically as well.
Hmm. I see three tent roofs, the third is smaller and yellow and has a lot more loopy rope stuff going on. I assume the baldachin is in the rosette with the sun below.
Quote:And the central sphere can be nothing other than the outermost sphere, where the fixed stars are located. And all those tubes we see represent the way astral influence is channeled—originating here and radiating throughout the universe all the way to Earth.
But the tubes don't actually go anywhere but inward. Nothing is showing anything getting to Earth from there. In fact the angles of the tubes seem like they might miss the Earth entirely, even if something was travelling through toward the direction of Earth.
'Can be nothing but'...requires an explanation. Can you give some reasons why? Why can it not just be a cloundband of fixed stars above some towers or containers, on a succession of plateaus, also surrounded by a cloudband, with maybe the ground below all that with pipes in it, surrounded by whatever the triangles are? Anyway I was just trying to describe it without any theory in mind. But what makes you think they are spheres, other than the idea of celestial spheres, if it is not all the spheres? I thought that idea made sense until you said that the planets aren't there. Maybe the tents hide some of the planets, because, as you say, they don't matter, they're just travelling about, camping out under the stars. Maybe that is why the tents?
There are six other rosettes with asterisks. If those are stars, they have escaped. Or maybe it is their influence. There is another with a cloudband, albeit of a differring design. There are another two rosettes with tubes, albeit with differences. There are four more rosettes with the stacked slabs, plus some on pathways, some including the dots or tick marks. The fringe is on all the pathways, and in two more of the rosettes. The dots or tick marks on the little triangles on the outer edge are on the fringe in the crescent Rosette. So the only unique items are the triangle fringe, the containers, the patterned line on the top half, and the 3d nature of the asterisk cloudband. None of this says sphere to me.
When you say it is the sphere of fixed stars, I look at the cloudband of asterisks and say, sure, why not, a solid 3d field of stars, above everything else, in their own cloudband realm. But then what are the other asterisks? Just decoration, like the crennelations? Totally possible. Just a doodle. But then the central cloudbands and asterisks lose meaning too, why would it not be just a doodle too?
Quote:If I am asked which planet corresponds to each sphere, I say I do not know, because the author does not seem to have been much concerned with that. It does seem certain, however, that the upper-left sphere corresponds to the Moon, as we can see crescent shapes on it.
I agree with you there, I don't see them there either, but I will ask again what the rest of the rosettes are doing there then, when it supposed to be the celestial spheres?
I was thinking if some of the planets are under the tents, they may be saying that something magnifies their light, compared with fixed stars. We are seeing them from above now, we normally see them from below, or from the side, maybe because it has something that makes it brighter, like how a tent with a candle inside glows inside and out (depending of what the tent is made of) whereas a candle in the middle of nowhere is just a small flickering flame in the dark.
Also, here is a list I found of what medieval people thought each represented in terms of influence (ala Ai, so correct me on them if necessary, i am no expert on these ideas)
Saturn: cold, dry, melancholy
Jupiter: temperate, beneficent
Mars: hot, dry, aggressive
These occupied the farthest spheres, they needed the most reason for amplification of light so I will suggest these are the tent spheres. Maybe the yellowish one is Mars, hot and dry so not a full tent so you still catch the breezes, and the colour seems appropos to some degree, maybe it used to be even more orange.
Venus: moist, fertile, attractive
Hey look, the fourth in that group seems to be about water.
Mercury: variable, intellectual
That sounds like the rosette with the Volvelle.
Moon: changeable, governs growth and moisture
You have already identified the Moon and Earth, I accept those. The fringes seem like vegetation to me, and the crescent moon rosette has the most advanced kind, with the dots, and a double row to boot. Note that the vegetation is in between the two conglomerates of slabs, I think those are slabs of rock, as in mountains or hills, bringing the moisture down for the plants, and changeable, from hill to valley to hill.
One more Rosette left, but it doesnt seem to be the sun at first sight, but maybe it works with it somehow, there are already two recognizeable suns, one right nearby, so it is not forgotten. Hmmm. The baldachin could mean either king of planets, or it could function as a metaphor for shade, as could the whole structure.
Quote:Throughout the codex, we see the sun, the moon, and stars—many stars. That is why I believe that, in the authors' conception, the planets do not play a significant role. Naturally, at that time, planetary conjunctions—such as that of Saturn and Jupiter—were highly significant for astrological predictions. However, as I mentioned, the astrology found in the Voynich manuscript is of a different nature; it appears to focus on the influence of the fixed stars and, perhaps, the Moon.
There could be planets in some of that star stuff? Plus there are missing pages and quires that might have contained some key concepts or context. There are no stars in the rosettes though, if you speak of the items in quires 8 thru 12, and 20, the closest thing is the asterisks. If you qualify them as stars too, then that is fine, they do also occur on the first page of quire 9, along with the stars.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 03-09-2026
(02-09-2026, 06:51 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(02-09-2026, 04:51 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.y drawing those houses over the abyss or that tower without a base, the artist achieves a vertical profile that suggests there is nothing below. This creates the sensation that everything is suspended in space.I don’t think so. I would assume that all Rosettes are depicted as objects floating in the air.
If you take a closer look, the Rosettes are mainly connected by something resembling rocks; this is clearly visible at the bridge between the Northwestern and Western Rosettes. These cliffs always have clear boundaries separating them from something that looks like waves (so I assume this might be a reference to water, but let’s forget about that for now). There is no flat surface anywhere.
Thank you, I am glad to see someone else sees some of the imagery as resembling rocks, and the varying heights. You are right, the different kinds are confusing and I am not sure if it is waves or merely another type of rock, but definitely I think the blue means water is involved in the scheme of things.
I think the rocks at the moon/sun give a visual clue, transitioning from almost realistic portrayal into the abstract mnemonic blue and uncolored wavy sections.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 03-09-2026
It’s fine by me if you see rocks and waves, but I don’t see any of that; I think the most natural thing would be for you to start a joint thread and share your take on the Rosettes. You surely won't do it, because you prefer people to read what you write—and what better place than here?
The Rosettes foldout is a very difficult sheet to understand because, for its creator, it represented an abstract idea—a visualization of their conception of the universe. If we wish to understand that abstract idea, it is necessary to study very carefully not only medieval astronomy but also—and above all—astrology. Lynn Thorndike, a renowned author who wrote a History of Magic and Experimental Science stated that, in those days, wisdom and astrology were almost synonymous.
The strongest clue we have for correctly interpreting that sheet is the scallop-shaped band visible on the central rosette, representing the cosmic boundary. Furthermore, we see those sumptuous vessels sheltered by a canopy of stars. And some of those luxurious vessels are almost identical to others we see in the pharmacy section, alongside roots and leaves. I believe the metaphor is clear to anyone with common sense: the precious essences of those medicinal herbs are produced by the stars—the virtus caelestis, as Saint Albert the Great called it.
RE: No text, but a visual code - ololololo - 03-09-2026
(03-09-2026, 09:35 AM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It’s fine by me if you see rocks and waves, but I don’t see any of that; I think the most natural thing would be for you to start a joint thread and share your take on the Rosettes. You surely won't do it, because you prefer people to read what you write—and what better place than here?I’m just adding to and clarifying your theory. I didn’t claim that waves are water; it could be a metaphor for space or clouds. The rocks are also noteworthy for a reason — they are all elevated objects. They are on the same level as the Rosettes, and there isn’t a single bridge that is lower in level.
It’s as if you think we’re villains
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 03-09-2026
I think we're just trying to correlate what we see with what you see for better understanding. If we see rocks, the expected response would be for you to say, no they are not rocks in my view at all, those are x's. Instead, we don't now know what you see them as, except not-rocks, but that is like saying don't think of a pink elephant. We are left seeing the pink elephant and are no wiser. What are those patterns for you, then? Do you see them as flat?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 03-09-2026
I will try to further refine what I see, although—as I have said before—perhaps trying to decipher every single detail is a futile task.
I do not see rocks or water, because I assume the entire drawing is meant to represent space—not the space near Earth, but the space situated above the Moon. In other words, the perfect and eternal universe of Aristotelian cosmology. The spheres of the Rosettes are connected—not by bridges or rock strata, as they appear to you, but by light, astral fluid, and ether: the quintessence that fills that universe. Moreover, the fact that these zones are raised may be a device used by the author to simulate height and space.
The author uses this device as well to represent, on a flat plane, the three-dimensionality of the Earth floating in space by drawing those houses over the abyss or that tower without a base. He achieves a vertical profile that suggests there is nothing below. This creates the sensation that everything is suspended in space.
I know that what I am saying will not convince everyone, but I want to point out that there are clearly cosmological pages that share elements with the Rosettes foldout. And it is most likely that this sheet is an attempt by the Voynich authors to represent the medieval universe.
RE: No text, but a visual code - ololololo - 03-09-2026
(03-09-2026, 04:59 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The spheres of the Rosettes are connected—not by bridges or rock strata, as they appear to you, but by light, astral fluid, and ether: the quintessence that fills that universe.When I talk about rocks, I mean patterns like the ones on the right and below.
You can’t see the rocks, and I can’t see the astral plane.