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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - ololololo - 30-08-2026
(30-08-2026, 07:17 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Perhaps it is of a decorative nature and does not relate to either the Moon or the other Rosettas. Like the same T‑O map next to the supposed Rosetta of Earth.(29-08-2026, 07:40 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
This other volvelle appears in a 15th-century manuscript. The sextile is represented by a different symbol, whereas the trine is depicted as a triangle—the standard representation for this astrological aspect.
The zodiac is indeed not depicted in the volvelle sketch from the Rosettes foldout, but that is not particularly important. What is truly significant is that, at the center of that small sphere marked with 360 degrees or 24 hours, we can see a representation of a trine.
Please, before replying, it is advisable to read up a little on the basics of astrology so you can understand what I am talking about.
I understand you are looking for representations of the aspects, I realize that on the earlier ones I posted you have to calculate them, but they are still there. Your latest example says it is from 1491, so i find that again to be too late. I am having trouble finding anything earlier where they are specifically shown, although the trine and other glyphs seem well established much earlier, in tables at least, for example here You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
I found this, which is even earlier, not a volvelle, and without the glyphs.
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Also the 1424 Ashmole 370 volvelle, which like many other earlier volvelles, does not show the fanning of the aspects, but does still show a sun and two moons (one of the moons shows the phases, the other is one of the pointers, the sun is the other) which together calculate the aspects.
I could accept your description of what it is, but it is still somewhat problematic in terms of precedents and in why it would only show the trine example, on its own it does not call into mind the aspectarium tradition, even if it did start earlier. However, an off center set of pointers might call such a thing into mind.
Also, how does it relate to the diagram as a whole, since if it is an exploded form of concentric plantary spheres; it is nowhere near the moon rosette, not sure where the sun rosette is, or whether the two suns are involved. i.e. what message is its placement sending in this format, other than basically being an astronomical happy face? Perhaps it suggests all of it is in motion, and in this format of exploded celectial spheres, much of it is in trine position?
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 30-08-2026
(30-08-2026, 07:24 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Perhaps it is of a decorative nature and does not relate to either the Moon or the other Rosettas. Like the same T‑O map next to the supposed Rosetta of Earth.
But I could understand TO Earth attached to Earth rosette to indicate Earth, that seems informative, rather than simply decorative, but what would astrolabe trine attached to "?" indicate? (I don't know what Antonio identifies this rosette as, other than it is not the earth, moon, or fixed stars). Does it relate at all to the thing on the other side of the same rosette?
RE: No text, but a visual code - ololololo - 31-08-2026
(30-08-2026, 07:37 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The connection to Rosette’s turnover is controversial, so I won’t say anything here, because I don’t know(30-08-2026, 07:24 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Perhaps it is of a decorative nature and does not relate to either the Moon or the other Rosettas. Like the same T‑O map next to the supposed Rosetta of Earth.
But I could understand TO Earth attached to Earth rosette to indicate Earth, that seems informative, rather than simply decorative, but what would astrolabe trine attached to "?" indicate? (I don't know what Antonio identifies this rosette as, other than it is not the earth, moon, or fixed stars). Does it relate at all to the thing on the other side of the same rosette?
Perhaps this volvelle denotes some abstract “measurement”, “coordinates” or something similar, and it refers either to the nearby Rosette or to all of them at once.
In any case, in the form presented, its significance is either decorative or illustrative.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 31-08-2026
I do believe that small sketch of a volvelle holds some kind of meaning related to the Rosettes spheres.
The central sphere—that of the fixed stars—communicates with four others. In reality, it communicates with all of them, but it does so directly with those four through different symbols. What is significant is that communication with the two central spheres—on the left and right—takes place via those groupings of three repeated lines visible on the small volvelle.
This is no coincidence; it holds some kind of significance. We have seen that those lines represent the degrees of the sphere, each with a value of 15 degrees—equivalent to one hour of time. Therefore, what those very lines in the rosettes signify is time—the passage of time—given that it is the spheres of the medieval universe that mark time through their movement.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Radim Dobeš - 31-08-2026
It could also be a symbol from the Malachim alphabet, which is derived from ancient "spectacle-shaped" characters. This symbol is called RESH. I will provide a detailed description and rationale in my own thread so as not to interfere with this theory. They can also be found in the *Key of Solomon* and *Picatrix*.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 31-08-2026
The Malachim alphabet was created by Cornelius Agrippa in the 16th century, drawing upon planetary seals used in astral magic. The Picatrix, a medieval grimoire, employs this celestial geometry to channel the energy of planets or the brightest stars into talismans.
Although there is a certain resemblance, it has nothing to do with the drawing seen inside the small Rosettes volvelle. It is an astrological aspect between the Sun and the Moon called a trine, which is considered positive. If I am certain of this interpretation, it is because on folio f67v2 we see the sun and moon interacting, and the astrological aspects—including the trine—are depicted with small heads.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 31-08-2026
Perhaps the indication of a trine means the rosette attached is in a trine with the two next to it? It is a corner rosette, so makes a triangle with them on the page.
There was a triple conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn in 1425 February March and August which formed trines with itself that was evidently considered a big deal, or in 1430 there were a succession of three 3-planet clusters with Jupiter and Saturn visiting with Mercury, Venus and Mars in succession over a few months. There were others in 1416, 1427 and 1438.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 31-08-2026
In reality, the planets do not appear to play any role in Voynich astrology. Only the Sun, the Moon, and the fixed stars.
The clearest thing I see, as I have already mentioned, is the relationship between the groups of three lines on the small volvelle and the corresponding groups of three lines extending from the central rosette toward the rosettes on either side. To me, it is a clear allusion to movement and the passage of time.
RE: No text, but a visual code - ololololo - 31-08-2026
(31-08-2026, 07:28 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In reality, the planets do not appear to play any role in Voynich astrology. Only the Sun, the Moon, and the fixed stars.But you claimed that the Rosettes are planets. Perhaps it would be worth naming which planet corresponds to which Rosette?
The clearest thing I see, as I have already mentioned, is the relationship between the groups of three lines on the small volvelle and the corresponding groups of three lines extending from the central rosette toward the rosettes on either side. To me, it is a clear allusion to movement and the passage of time.
I’m not against the interpretation that Rosettes is a vivid illustration of space, not involving any computational complexity. But it would be good to try to identify the other planets...
RE: No text, but a visual code - Linda - 31-08-2026
Your theory does seem to be in some sort of flux, or am I wrong that it evolves as you solidify your thoughts about it? This is fine but it sometimes takes a moment of reintegration to get through to rejoin your reality, it's like someone time travelled and changed a tiny thing you think you wouldn't notice, but you have memories that never happened in this reality. Because I too understood it to be the unnested celestial spheres, but now we are down to earth moon sun and stars. What are the other spheres? The elements? Plus? Which is the sun?