The Voynich Ninja
The Arma Christi [General discussion] - Printable Version

+- The Voynich Ninja (https://www.voynich.ninja)
+-- Forum: Voynich Research (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-27.html)
+--- Forum: Imagery (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-43.html)
+--- Thread: The Arma Christi [General discussion] (/thread-2871.html)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18

RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion] - nablator - 08-09-2019

(07-09-2019, 11:16 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There's one style of "INRI" which is very similar to this; the examples below are from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

That's IHC (iota-eta-sigma) for Jesus, not INRI.

See also f. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

Quote:It looks like "INR" to me, so IESVS NAZARENVS REX, without the IVDÆORVM?

Maybe lowercase:

   

RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion] - -JKP- - 08-09-2019

I agree that the text on the square banner is IHC (Ih's, Iesus).


But looking at this another way...

For a long time I have wondered why this Viola flower was drawn with such an unusual center, the upper-central part is not a strange shape on a plant, but it is strange on a Viola flower even though, for the most part, this is a naturalistic drawing. I wasn't even sure if this was meant to be the front or the back (or both):

   

What it looked like to me, before Arma Christi was suggested, was spikes. I couldn't understand why they were there and for a while I thought, "Is this an attempt to draw a Columbine flower hidden in a Viola flower?" But nothing about the rest of the image suggests Aquilegia and Aquilegia is more like horns than spikes and really doesn't have much in common with Viola other than color.

But three spikes (if that is one in the middle), would fit with Arma Christi themes.

RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion] - Koen G - 08-09-2019

(08-09-2019, 12:03 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe lowercase

I hadn't looked at it that way, but I like it Smile


I'm still wondering about who's on the right. While Mary is always on the left (at Christ's right hand), the person(s) on the right vary. They can be the "bad guys", a group of enemies of Christ. But often there is a single figure in focus. One option, mentioned only in the Gospel of John, is the "disciple whom Jesus loved", thought since early Christianity to be John the Evangelist himself.

Here are two common examples of a composed scene and a crowded scene, where Mary and John are the bystanders in focus.

   

The other option is Mary Magdalen. Since she was also mentioned as a witness in the gospels, she is often depicted at the crucifixion, usually with long blond hair. Here's a good example:

[Image: m357.158ra.jpg]
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion] - Koen G - 08-09-2019

On to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , the other side of the pansy folio. I've always seen this root as a sturdy trunk with a flat top and twisted roots.

But this trick of the eye can be undone by having one look at the thing upside down.

   

It appears to represent an item of rough fabric. No idea what it could be though, or the rest of the plant for that matter.

RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion] - -JKP- - 08-09-2019

Is there a connection between the root of 1v and 9r?


The root of 1v has always looked to me like a cross between a bear claw and fabric.

It would not surprise me if it were fabric, because IF 1v is Hypericum (which is in the top 2 on my shortlist of favorite IDs), it was used as a dye plant (red, from the leaves and note how the leaves are drawn alternately green and red).

So if 1v might be a fabric-mnemonic root, then perhaps 9r is, as well.


9r

My favorite ID for 9r is Russian kale. When I You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. about it 6 years ago, it was very difficult to find pictures of Russian kale that were non-copyright that showed the parts I wanted to illustrate:
  • It has extremely ruffled leaves. Like clouds, you can see things in them because of all the detailed little shapes.
  • The stems of red kale are distinctively red.
  • The roots can be substantial (in some circumstances kale can grow five feet tall, almost tree-shaped), although most of the time, it is a hairy taproot (not especially thick).

Here are some more recent links that show the similarity to the VMS plant:
  • A young one where it's easier to see the shape of the leaves: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  • This shows the red stems: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  • Upside-down picture of kale roots: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. although they are not always as thick as this pic.


Kale is not especially associated with the Bible or with dying, or with fabric-making so...


Alternate ID for 9v

My next-favorite ID for this plant is a certain species of rhubarb (also with very ruffled leaves, red stems, and this plant has very beefy roots). IF the way the roots are drawn is intended as a mnemonic for cloth, then rhubarb would fit well. It has many uses as a dye plant, and is also as a mordant (to help set the dyes).

There are many Bible stories dealing with spinning (it was Eve's avatar after she was expelled from the Garden) and fabric. Cloaks were a common theme.  Maybe the roots refer to cloaks? Possibly the roots of dye plants...

The angel told Peter to gird himself with a cloak.
Elijah hid his face in his cloak (note the "pose" of the root).
Mary of Egypt wore a hair cloak (the 9v root is drawn in a way that is similar to medieval hair cloaks).
Touching Jesus's cloak could heal you.
Cloaks were used like a Red Carpet for dignitaries.
Cloaks were put on animals to serve as a riding blanket.
Joseph's coat of many colors was a symbol of favor.

And several other coat/cloak stories.

RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion] - -JKP- - 08-09-2019

Arma Christi wall shield in Yorkminster with double-helix:

[Image: 4303656894_0dac13e26b_z.jpg]

Creative Commons 2.0 Credit: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.


Sometimes the individual parts were broken into separate portions. This is a later example from upper Austria, but I have also seen this in medieval churches.

It seems to me that if Arma Christi were hidden within a manuscript, it would be easier to illustrate them like this, as discrete groupings. Dice and stakes, hammer and tongs:

[Image: 401px-St.Georg_in_Hollerberg_-_Wies-Schr...hristi.jpg]  [Image: 800px-St.Georg_in_Hollerberg_-_Wies-Schr...hristi.jpg]

Creative Commons 3.0 Credit: Wolfgang Sauber through Wikimedia

This is also a later example, but I include it because it shows naked cherubs from the waist up holding the various implements:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion] - Koen G - 08-09-2019

Agreed, I think a one image Arma Christi collection is less likely.

About You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. I'm still puzzled. You can feel that they mean something, but it's hard to tell what. I was thinking a garment, but it appears to be woven or knotted somehow. Maybe you're right that it has something to do with hair dressing. Or maybe it is just hair?

I tried tracing the outlines but that doesn't clarify much for me.

   

RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion] - -JKP- - 08-09-2019

When it is upside-down, it especially looks like someone in a hair cloak with arms crossed.

RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion] - Common_Man - 09-09-2019

Upside down is the only way it seems to make any kindof sense to me as of now.. Looks to me like 2 people hugging, and the leaves look like medieval nails(?) like the ones You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . The idea might've gotten into my head since the branches are specifically painted in red, and it seem to mean blood in the VM arma christi seeming images..  Confused The more I look at the images it looks like they were deliberately drawn in these particular ways, with almost everything saying something.. Not a single stroke seems wasted.

RE: The Arma Christi [General discussion] - Koen G - 09-09-2019

Yes, I agree about the blood. Red is almost exclusively found in Currier A, which I think deals with the theme of the Passion (possibly among other things). Currier B I think includes Revelation.

The Passion is basically a stream of blood and torture, so it's consistent that A is relatively rich in red.

For the red specks in this folio, I'm reminded of the booklet I posted about in the other thread, in which a priest describes how to link stages of the Passion to certain plants, based on old folk names.

"Consider Millfoil or Our Lord's Back (Achillea millefolia) whose myriads of red flowerets were seen to symbolize the welts of Christ's scourged back."