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+--- Thread: No text, but a visual code (/thread-2384.html)
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RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 13-09-2025
robappleton, I appreciate that we agree that the Voynich glyphs are independent symbols, but I do not agree with you on the meaning you give them. I don't see in the codex the kind of imagery that we see in works with alchemical content.
I see things more simply. Each herb we see in the Voynich corresponds to a specific astral configuration. A way of explaining in the medieval world that the medicinal or even magical properties of herbs come from heaven. This may sound esoteric, but it's very Aristotelian.
As for the symbols, I believe the gallows are a representation of the sun, which is why we usually see one gallow in each group of glyphs, but no more. This explains why there's a gallow at the beginning of so-called paragraphs. The lines are like paths along the ecliptic, always beginning with the sun.
The two-legged gallows represent the sun in both hemispheres, northern and southern. The same is true of the one-legged gallows, which represent the sun at the lunar nodes. I believe this is why we often see the latter in the first lines of paragraphs or circuits around the ecliptic circle.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 25-09-2025
I believe the Voynich script was made with a Volvelle, a tool like the astrolabe that was used to make astronomical calculations. A Volvelle like this one for example:
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Note the sun and moon above the pointers. In my interpretation of the script, the frequent bigram [qo] is a representation of the sun rising over the horizon. [q] is just a pointer, as we see in the image of the Volvelle. [qo] is usually followed by one of the gallows. When it's one of the two-legged gallows, we see the pointer (the left leg) rise to indicate the movement of the sun.
Although much less common, there is also [qc], which means the same thing: the moon rising over the horizon.
The pointer indicates movement, which is why we don't see this glyph in labels and why it is the first glyph in a group of them. It is also the reason why we see identical vords with or without a pointer.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Jorge_Stolfi - 26-09-2025
(25-09-2025, 01:52 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I believe the Voynich script was made with a Volvelle, a tool like the astrolabe that was used to make astronomical calculations. A Volvelle like this one for example
Thanks for that interesting image!
When and where is that "built-in calculator" from? (You surely know about Ramón LLull's "philosophical engine" wheels, right?)
However, I don't see how the VMS circles could have been created with such a device device. On the contrary, a compass would have been necessary to create those computing wheels.
The VMS circles seem to have random radii, hardly two of them the same. At their center there is usually a small pinprick such as could be created by the compass's dry point (and it is a thru-hole indeed, as can be seen in the backlighted images of f70v1 or You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. from the multispectral set). It is too small to have served as the axis of a rotating paper wheel.
All the best, --jorge
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 26-09-2025
Of course, Jorge, the Voyich circles were made with a compass. What I'm saying is that the script could have been made using a Volvelle.
I don't think script is a language. In another thread, I saw someone expressing surprise at seeing the [cccc] glyph repeated up to four times. Look at the image of the Volvelle I posted earlier. This repetition could be the result of moving the moon pointer to change its position. Hence, we see one, two, three, or even four moon symbols together. Perhaps the benches, which have the same shape, mark a larger position.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 30-09-2025
I have used the EVA alphabet in my previous posts by inertia even though I am totally against using letters from any alphabet to replace script glyphs.
I referred earlier to the glyph that looks like a pointer: q
I think it's one of the most iconic glyphs, given that the arrowhead clearly indicates what it means. It's a symbol of movement. I included an image of a Volvelle earlier, where you can see how the sun and moon points end in arrowheads. I already said that if you analyze the functions of this glyph in the structure of the script, you will see that in one way or another it indicates movement, like when we see the arrow above the base in two of the gallows, which indicate the northern hemisphere.
We don't see the symbol on the labels because they don't move. They are static astronomical groups.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 12-10-2025
It's a shame that renowned experts with extensive academic backgrounds aren't involved in Voynich research. It is somewhat surprising because this manuscript is universally known and I refuse to believe that there are not half a dozen Panofskys in the world, people who know enough about art history and iconography to formulate an informed opinion.
When interpreting the Voynich imagery, we tend to study isolated images but fail to provide a comprehensive understanding of the codex. We can't see the forest for the trees. I do have an opinion on the entire iconography. It boils down to the influence of the stars on medicinal herbs. I've been trying for some time to compare it with someone who also has a comprehensive understanding of the imagery. I may be wrong, but I need someone to prove it to me with convincing arguments.
In fact, my theory that the script is composed of astronomical symbols and groups of them that combine is based on my iconographic interpretation. The shape of the glyphs is quite revealing, but what gives meaning to this script is the message of the images.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Jorge_Stolfi - 12-10-2025
(12-10-2025, 07:17 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's a shame that renowned experts with extensive academic backgrounds aren't involved in Voynich research.
Many tried. But they got nothing but frustration.
Again, I believe that the problem is that all Voynichologists who know a little about Medieval paleography and history make the same logical mistake. They observe that the vellum and ink look European, the text layout is European, the herbal section looks like a typical European herbal, the general shape of the letters is European, the Zodiac signs are European, the marginal notes and month names look European, the nymphs and hats and hairdos and castles are European... and "therefore", they conclude, the Author must be European, the subject matter must be connected to Medieval European culture, and the language must be European.
And since all attempts to find a simple substitution cipher of any European language failed, all the crypto/linguistic sleuths conclude that it must be some sophisticated cipher. And got stuck there. Or resorted to the cop-out "I cannot crack it, so it must be gibberish". (But then they cannot explain why it looks so much like a natural language...)
And since all attempts to find connections between the imagery and European culture (beyond those few listed above) also failed, all the historians and professional paleographers soon gave up and moved on to other more rewarding topics.
All the best, --jorge
RE: No text, but a visual code - Barbrey - 12-10-2025
If you’re an established scholar, you’d have to be immensely brave (or a little bit foolish?) to hang your hat on Voynich theories that can neither be proven nor disproven, and could open you up to ridicule! For a part of my life, decades ago, I was a research fellow with a growing publication record. I would not have touched the Voynich with a ten foot pole! Let’s hear it for the few brave academics who forge ahead regardless!
One thing I always find interesting is that medievalists often, to my mind, get the images right or mostly right. Brumbaugh, for instance, was quite certain they had to do with the “water of life”. But instead of telling us why and how he came to his conclusion, which he had expertise in, he tried to solve the “cipher” text, an area he had no background in at all.
Didn’t this happen to many of the would-be decipherers? It’s true the other way around too. Experts in STEM fields bring their interpretations to the images without any expertise in medieval art history, semiotics or figurative critical thinking. I think the funniest thing I ever saw in VMS analysis was a description of the Rosettes page from the pov of a scientist.
At any rate, even if I think an “expert” academic theory or interpretation is complete nonsense, if they’ve stayed in their lane, I have nothing but respect for those brave enough to step into this dangerous territory. It’s admirable. When they step outside it, like Brumbaugh, Feely, Cheshire et al., they appear a little foolish.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 13-10-2025
If there's one advantage that comes with age, it's that you lose your fear of ridicule, and above all, that you have your own ideas. You respect knowledge, but there are no longer any authorities.
As a librarian at the National Library of Spain, when I was active, I saw many medieval manuscripts. That gives you a certain amount of knowledge, but above all, what you learn is that the past is like stepping into a foreign country. The way of seeing the world was so different at that time!
The impression I often get when reading interpretations of the Voynich is that they don't penetrate the mentality of the past. It all sounds very current to me, very much of our time. I'm the only member of this forum who thinks the Voynich has no balneological or biological section, that it's all astrology. I may never convince anyone, but it's worth a try because this codex is authentic and had meaning for the humanity of its time.
RE: No text, but a visual code - Antonio García Jiménez - 18-10-2025
One of the key elements, and perhaps the most attractive, of the Voynich iconography are the hundreds of female figures in the codex. We see them in the zodiacal section and in Quire 13. I assume they are the same. What I mean is that the authors have given the same meaning to the female figures in both parts or sections. What I maintain is that these figures are allegorical representations of the zodiacal stars, a very common iconographic resource in medieval times, that is, replacing something concrete or an abstraction with a human figure.
Anyone who has seen medieval astronomical or astrological manuscripts will have encountered personifications of the planets. Venus as a woman, Saturn as an old man, or Mars as an armed warrior. It's true that it's much harder to find personifications of stars. They do exist when it comes to constellations, but they're rarer when it comes to individual stars.
However, there are examples such as this German manuscript from the second half of the 15th century (Ms M. 384, f21r)
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This is the Pleiades constellation and we can see the representation of each star as a female figure. We see how there is a star above each of their heads to make it clear that they are not women but stars. It's something similar to the zodiacal section of the Voynich, where each of the female figures holds a star.