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+--- Thread: Voynichese is a numeric cipher? (/thread-5798.html)
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher? - JoJo_Jost - 30-07-2026
(29-07-2026, 09:45 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The more complicated it gets the less likely it looks.
Well, let's put it another way: The VMS is definitely not based on a "simple" cipher.
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher? - oshfdk - 30-07-2026
(30-07-2026, 05:10 AM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Well, let's put it another way: The VMS is definitely not based on a "simple" cipher.
If this is a cipher at all, this depends on what you mean by simple. Simple to break, definitely not. Simple to use, teach, learn and based on simple principles? Still quite possible, we can't really disprove this without finding the solution.
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher? - JoJo_Jost - 30-07-2026
Since I assume—based on the similarities in the balneology section regarding body parts—that this might be related to anatomy, the cipher in this case would not be optimized for readability, but rather for the highest possible encryption factor.
In the 15th century, the study of anatomy was extremely dangerous in the staunchly "Catholic" region of Bavaria.
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher? - oshfdk - 30-07-2026
It is obviously optimized for being hard to break. Doesn't mean it's complex.
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher? - ololololo - 30-07-2026
(30-07-2026, 10:29 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is obviously optimized for being hard to break. Doesn't mean it's complex.It is worth clarifying the concept of cipher complexity.
A disposable notepad, for example, is not difficult to encrypt and decrypt (if you have the key), but using disposable notepads all the time is impractical because it is difficult.
And if I want to, I can make the substitution a little more complicated.
This is assuming that the complexity of a cipher is the time it takes to use, encrypt, and decrypt.
But if we take my cipher as an example, it's actually quite easy, as it's based on the principle of substitution and simple number encryption (we don't take into account my failures). But I don't think you can immediately crack even one passage without knowing how it works.
Also, as I said, the cipher can be very complex, to the point where it is either undecipherable (due to a lack of tools on our side or an overly complex algorithm) or produces nonsense (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.).
I wouldn't dismiss these possibilities and assume that Voynichese is something very ingenious and magnificent, and once we find a clue, we'll immediately crack the entire manuscript.
Considering the specifics of VMS, it's unlikely...
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher? - oshfdk - 30-07-2026
It's subjective. From what I've seen in this thread, your cipher is so complex that it's hard even for you to use correctly.
To say if it's simple or not, we need some scale, let's try to establish some scale using examples.
Let's say the simplest possible cipher is the simple substitution. A more complex cipher is the Vigenère. Both of these require just a single quick lookup into a table to encode a character. I think it's absolutely clear that your cipher is way harder to use than these two. So it's not easy and not simple. Maybe it's moderate complexity, maybe it's hard, but it's certain that there are ciphers much simpler than that.
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher? - ololololo - 30-07-2026
(30-07-2026, 11:33 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's subjective. From what I've seen in this thread, your cipher is so complex that it's hard even for you to use correctly.Its subjective
To say if it's simple or not, we need some scale, let's try to establish some scale using examples.
Let's say the simplest possible cipher is the simple substitution. A more complex cipher is the Vigenère. Both of these require just a single quick lookup into a table to encode a character. I think it's absolutely clear that your cipher is way harder to use than these two. So it's not easy and not simple. Maybe it's moderate complexity, maybe it's hard, but it's certain that there are ciphers much simpler than that.
My cipher is a modified substitution cipher. In fact, it is the same as the substitution cipher for letters with ordinal numbers. The numbers themselves are also somewhat disguised.
On this scale, it is closer to substitution than to the Vigenère cipher.
(30-07-2026, 11:33 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.From what I've seen in this thread, your cipher is so complex that it's hard even for you to use correctly.It's easy to encrypt messages. I have problems with decryption. But the fact that I tend to make mistakes plays a significant role...
If you think my code is difficult to use, you're only partially right.
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher? - ololololo - 30-07-2026
In fact, it would be more useful to study the "compatibility" of Voynichese letters, as this would allow us to determine the intended numerical value. I do not yet know how to verify this, but I do not wish to do so manually.
So far, the only numbers that have been identified are I and X
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher? - oshfdk - 30-07-2026
(30-07-2026, 12:10 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My cipher is a modified substitution cipher. In fact, it is the same as the substitution cipher for letters with ordinal numbers. The numbers themselves are also somewhat disguised.
On this scale, it is closer to substitution than to the Vigenère cipher.
You cipher includes anagrams, if I'm not mistaken. Which makes it way harder than the Vigenère cipher. I'd say it puts its complexity very close to "impossible", but this is subjective.
RE: Voynichese is a numeric cipher? - ololololo - 30-07-2026
(30-07-2026, 01:15 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Oh, you mean that... Then yes, you are right in some ways. But the algorithm itself is not complicated and I don't think it's much like the Vigenère cipher.(30-07-2026, 12:10 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My cipher is a modified substitution cipher. In fact, it is the same as the substitution cipher for letters with ordinal numbers. The numbers themselves are also somewhat disguised.
On this scale, it is closer to substitution than to the Vigenère cipher.
You cipher includes anagrams, if I'm not mistaken. Which makes it way harder than the Vigenère cipher. I'd say it puts its complexity very close to "impossible", but this is subjective.