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+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - Koen G - 05-08-2026
If vbren is something like verbennen, then it's just "burn balsam"?
So if the line is a fragment of an instruction, it could be like "(if you want to) burn balsam, then take (gasmich)"
RE: 116v - JoJo_Jost - 05-08-2026
@ nablator
"darnach dissenen îsets durch brey mischen mit baumöle vnd wachs und dar vß machen eyn salbe."
=
“Then mix this brey, which has been strained, with tree oil and wax, and make an ointment out of it.”
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In the example described above, “brey” is mixed with vegetable oils and wax; I don't think anyone would want to eat that.
No, “brey” is a state of matter, something soft and mixed—some “brey” is edible, others aren't—but ‘edible’ is not the definition of “brey”!!!
RE: 116v - JoJo_Jost - 05-08-2026
@ Koen it is a "p" not a "v"
RE: 116v - Koen G - 05-08-2026
I don't remember, did we find an example of "pb" for initial b/p?
RE: 116v - JoJo_Jost - 05-08-2026
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RE: 116v - JoJo_Jost - 05-08-2026
I’d like to add:
“palsen” is a fairly reliable reading, assuming that the 8 is an “s.”
“Pbrey” is much less reliable because it involves two assumptions, one of which is speculative:
1. the last letter is an "y"
2. “pb” really doesn’t occur at the beginning of a word in German.
There are spellings spanning two syllables, but we don’t have that here.
The assumption that the writer used the two common variants “prey” and “brey” in one word to create alliteration is speculative.
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 05-08-2026
There are two instances of an ‘s’ – in ‘six’ and ‘gas’.
In ‘pal8en’, it’s an ‘8’, and that’s a ‘t’ or a ‘d’.
I’ve never seen an ‘s’ or ‘8’ ending in the middle of a word.
Nor have I ever seen a word beginning with ‘bp’. There’s always a vowel between ‘b’ and ‘p’, as in ‘pup’, ‘bub’ or ‘poppen’, pipshow
RE: 116v - Koen G - 05-08-2026
Looking at it from the angle of paleography, the wonky 8 is more likely to represent "d" than "s", because we'd expect long-s medially.
It's also normal for scribes to alternate "n" with and without descender. The MS I happened to be looking at now has a ton of examples: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
So I think especially "pbren" as "brey" is a bit of a stretch.
I've also been trying to find words starting "pb" for just b or p, but without success.
RE: 116v - Rafal - 05-08-2026
Quote:If vbren is something like verbennen, then it's just "burn balsam"?
So if the line is a fragment of an instruction, it could be like "(if you want to) burn balsam, then take (gasmich)"
For a moment I thought it could be "Burn balsam, take the gas (the smoke) to me"
But the word "gas" seems to come only from the 17th century so it is rather not an option.
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 05-08-2026
@Koen
You’ve found an interesting passage here.
God is in the process of banishing Adam and Eve from Paradise.
“When (God) found them both”
“He said, ‘You must not be (together)’”
“You must leave Paradise”
"da (Gott) sie beide fand"
"er sprach, ihr sollt nicht (zu)sammen sein"
"ihr sollt das Paradies räumen (verlassen)
It’s also interesting to note that there’s the rare ‘b / w’ sound shift here