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+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: 116v (/thread-437.html)
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RE: 116v - schimmelchampagne - 01-02-2026
(01-02-2026, 11:36 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is the word even on that page?
Yes, but I think you need to click "ámbito rural."
RE: 116v - schimmelchampagne - 19-02-2026
There is some evidence that "Antxiton" (pronounced /antʃiton/ and thus likely in other spelling traditions to be written with <ch>) is an archaic Basque forename. "Antxito" is attested as a diminutive of "Antxon." The word "Antxitonea," today the name of a hotel, seems to be morphologically composed of the name "Antxito" or "Antxiton" plus a genitive suffix, meaning something like "Antxito(n)'s place."
"Antxiton" is an interesting possibility because the very next word is so strikingly similar to a common Basque surname: Olazabal. I think it would be worth looking for records of someone named Antxon/Antxito/Antxiton Olazabal. This would also be more evidence for a connection to a Pyrenean Romance language (Catalan, Occitan) that some have noted in the month names (and that I've proposed for 116v).
Why would a manuscript from Basque country (or at least containing a Basque name) have ended up in Prague? Maybe it has something to do with Ignatius de Loyola, who was from Gipuzkoa, and who sent twelve Jesuits to Clementinum in 1556 to found the Jesuit College where Baresch later studied.
RE: 116v - JoJo_Jost - 22-07-2026
I found something that might make sense in the context of a charm - maybe this will be of interest
“palsen” is a spoken Bavarian/Austrian form of the written word ‘Palssam’ or “Palsam”:
Dictionary of Bavarian Dialects in Austria:
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Palsam, in turn, is a type of balm (something fragrant / fragrant plants)
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Just a little find, whatever you want to do with it
PS: However, I was unable to determine whether it was already used that way in the Middle Ages.
RE: 116v - JoJo_Jost - 22-07-2026
Yet I found a reference from around 1400: “Balsem” with "e" was used. As is well known, “b” and “p” are interchangeable, and so are ‘m’ and “n” not sure writings. To that extent—it's plausible in that regard.
Brun v. Schoneb. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(md., Hs. um 1400):
mit balsem balsament man di kristen, | uz balsemnullen machet man mit listen | do mete man di pfaffen wiet.
RE: 116v - JoJo_Jost - 04-08-2026
The “p” is recognizable as the first letter of the second word after “poxleber.”
I have an excerpt here. You can clearly see how the “p” was written downward, and at the end, the point where the quill turned. Since the body of the ‘p’ also matches all the other “p”s in the text, we must assume that this glyph is also a “p.”
This provides further support for the spelling “pinen” = “torment” or “pain.”
“poxleber pinen putrifer” is an alliteration that is likely intended as a mnemonic:
poxleber for pain / bloating.
As Hildegard von Bingen wrote at the 12th century, Poxleber is a remedy for stomach pain and intestinal problems.
I quote from the text of Hildegard von Bingen below:
Frequent consumption of it (the male goat) heals the intestines and strengthens the stomach. [...]
Those suffering from stomach ailments should eat dried Bocksleber [male goat’s liver] frequently until August.
RE: 116v - Aga Tentakulus - 04-08-2026
That makes me go ‘hmmmmm’.
In Alemannic German, ‘peinlich’ is pronounced ‘pinlich’.
That would mean that the ‘m’ is actually an ‘in’ without a dot.
Bei mir kommt ein hmmmmm.
Im alemanischen wird "peinlich" als "pinlich" gesprochen.
Das würde bedeuten, dass das "m" in wirklichkeit ein "in" ohne Punkt ist.
RE: 116v - JoJo_Jost - 04-08-2026
in / m are highly likely to be confused with one another as soon as the dot above the “i” is missing...
and there may be several missing dots above the “i” in the margin, though those are, of course, the first ones to fade.
RE: 116v - JoJo_Jost - 05-08-2026
I can now cite both “palsen” and “palsam” in a single passage from the middle 14th century, as attested by a 1932 transcript of the poem—unfortunately, I cannot view the relevant page in the original, since only five pages of the original have been digitized, and the relevant page 63 is not among them. (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.)
Poem by Seyfried: The Great Alexander
1301–1399 written: 1352
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or
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Translation: Nothing but balm was poured into it.
RE: 116v - JoJo_Jost - 05-08-2026
And it also became clear to me what “pbrey” could be, after Stolfi identified the last letter as possibly being a “y.”
As we now know, the author of the “Charm” loved alliteration.
The scribe might have placed the “p” before “brey” to achieve the phonetic—or at least visual—alliteration “palsen–prey,” while at the same time writing “brey,” the form that was likely more familiar to him.
This would not be a standard dictionary word “pbrey,” but rather a contamination of two equally valid spelling variants. This is particularly supported by the fact that both forms actually existed in the same linguistic area.
But was there even such a thing as “balsam brey”???
(Mainz 1485):
"darnach dissen durch gestrichen brey mischen mit baumöle vnd wachs vnd dar vß machen eyn salbe."
“Then mix this brey, which has been strained, with tree oil and wax, and make an ointment out of it.”
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Balsam is originally a viscous, fragrant plant sap from balsam trees.
The recipe above demonstrates the connection between “brey” and tree oils.
As a conclusion of the last posts: And so, unfortunately, I have to disagree with Stolfi.
The various passages in the charm make sense. It’s clearly not an attempt to reconstruct something the scribe couldn’t read, but rather a perfectly normal charm.
However, I can’t say whether it was added by one of the scribes of the VMS or at a later
RE: 116v - nablator - 05-08-2026
(05-08-2026, 07:10 AM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Balsam is originally a viscous, fragrant plant sap from balsam trees.
A resin... can't be eaten. Brey is food.
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It must be the more general meaning of:
I. Balsam, fragrant substance; II. Term for fragrant plants;
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Good finds!