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+--- Forum: Marginalia (https://www.voynich.ninja/forum-45.html)
+--- Thread: f17r multispectral images (/thread-4364.html)
RE: f17r multispectral images - LisaFaginDavis - 25-01-2026
Here's my take on 17r and 116v, from the draft of my forthcoming book (so not finalized, in other words):
"The manuscript ends – and likely always ended – with the originally-blank page 116v. Early in the manuscript’s history, someone recorded a pseudo-Germanic inscription at the top of that page. The inscription is faded and damaged, and the transcription below is not at all certain:
pox leber rinon rutpfer
+ anchiton oladabas + miltos + te + c[ ] cere + portas + m +
six + marix + morix + vix + ahia + ma+ria +
<oror sheey> palsch ubren so nim gas mich
The same scribe wrote a second marginal inscription – also somewhat, but not clearly, Germanic – at the top of folio 17r, an inscription that was made more legible by recent multi-spectral imaging. As with the inscription on f. 116v, however, both the transcription and the interpretation of this inscription are uncertain: “Mallier aller luc[em? est?] her vall omnia <otaiol oim>”. Both inscriptions include a few Voynichese words (in angled brackets above), suggesting that they may be roughly contemporary with the creation of the manuscript. That contention is confirmed by the water-damage to the inscription on f. 17r: the inscription must predate the waterstain in the upper right corner of that leaf, which itself predates the current (15th-century) structure of the codex."
RE: f17r multispectral images - Koen G - 25-01-2026
Thanks, Lisa, it's good to have your readings, with the necessary uncertainty, as a point of reference.
Regarding "gas mich", wouldn't you say that long-s tips the scales in favor of reading it as a single word?
RE: f17r multispectral images - Aga Tentakulus - 25-01-2026
I think you've forgotten something.
F66r. also has a German text. ‘und den muss des’ (and that must be).
It is also the only text in German where the ink is identical to the drawing and the upper VM text.
This is the only proof that the German and VM texts belong together. Even if the VM text does not have to be German.
And you forgot the ‘o’ in ‘mich o’.
In German, it's quite clear. Depending on the region, ‘mich auch’ or ‘mich an’.
RE: f17r multispectral images - Bernd - 25-01-2026
I don't think that 'O' is a letter. It looks more like a drawing. It's simply too big compared to other 'o's in the text. And you have the sprinkles coming from above. But certain - I am not.
RE: f17r multispectral images - Jorge_Stolfi - 25-01-2026
(25-01-2026, 01:40 PM)LisaFaginDavis Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."The manuscript ends – and likely always ended – with the originally-blank page 116v. Early in the manuscript’s history, someone recorded a pseudo-Germanic inscription at the top of that page.
I have already posted what I clearly see on the UV image (only) of that page, and to me it tells a very different story. Which explains why no one has been able to read that text (or even identify half of the letters), and why it includes two words of Voynichese at precisely that point.
But it seems that it is a story that no one wants to know...
Quote:the current (15th-century) structure of the codex.
You mean 16th century, or later?
All the best, --stolfi
RE: f17r multispectral images - LisaFaginDavis - 25-01-2026
No, I mean fifteenth century, which is indicated by the sewing structure.
RE: f17r multispectral images - Jorge_Stolfi - 26-01-2026
(25-01-2026, 01:40 PM)LisaFaginDavis Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."The manuscript ends – and likely always ended – with the originally-blank page 116v. Early in the manuscript’s history, someone recorded a pseudo-Germanic inscription at the top of that page. The inscription is faded and damaged, and the transcription below is not at all certain:
pox leber rinon rutpfer
+ anchiton oladabas + miltos + te + c[ ] cere + portas + m +
six + marix + morix + vix + ahia + ma+ria +
<oror sheey> palsch ubren so nim gas mich
Lisa, I advise you to refrain from providing any theory about those "marginalia". Whatever you write is very likely to be quite wrong. It would be safer to give just an objective description of what can be seen, without committing to any interpretation, reading, or purpose. Something like:
- "On the to right corner of page f116v, in a small area beyond a tear and a hole of the vellum, there is a drawing of a "nymph" and of other items that have not been identified yet. Other than that, there are four lines of extremely damaged writing, spanning the top of the page. The last line starts with two common Voynichese words, aror Sheey. Of the other signs in those four lines, most resemble Latin letters, and some resemble Voynichese glyphs, but both deformed to a greater or lesser extent. While some of the Latin letters seem to make up words (in some unidentified Germanic dialect), the readings are generally strained. There are also about ten crosses between and above the words. To date no one has found a plausible coherent parsing of any significant portion of those lines into meaningful text."
All the best, --stolfi
RE: f17r multispectral images - Doireannjane - 26-01-2026
Big agree
RE: f17r multispectral images - Koen G - 26-01-2026
I think Lisa expresses the necessary precautions by calling it "not at all certain". The vast majority of the readers will be people with a casual interest in the MS. They want to see a reading of the text, but you can't give them a full course on paleography first. So providing an attempt is the only way to go, while also stressing that identifying the glyphs and the underlying (mix of?) dialects is troublesome.
RE: f17r multispectral images - zachary.kaelan - 03-02-2026
(11-01-2026, 07:16 AM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view."Maler hört alle her, vollkommen ist: " = "Painter, listen up, everyone, perfectly is:" and then the name of a plant written in Voynichese. But I think ‘painter’ is rather unlikely.
For "maler alle kurzen her vollkommen", Google translate gives me "the painter completely fills all the short spaces". If it was something like that, then that would make a lot of sense as a painting instruction. However, it is very obviously not the correct meaning, as "perfect" or "complete" are not words anyone here would use to describe the paint job.
If it does have intended meaning, I think it's most likely to be a correction or addition, or maybe something that can't be fully expressed in Voynichese. In which case, one may need to understand the Voynichese to have the context required to read it. Which, if they went through all the trouble required to conceal the meaning of the main text in the first place, I could see them intentionally making any corrections as ambiguous as possible.