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+--- Thread: F90v1 - houndstongue? (/thread-5721.html)
F90v1 - houndstongue? - Rafal - 10-05-2026
I noticed some similarity between f90v1 and another manuscript:
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The plant is known as Houndstongue (Cynoglossum officinale in Latin, Hundszunge in modern German)
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Wikipedia says: The plant owes its common and scientific name to the long greyish leaves that are reminiscent of a dog's tongue and were once given as a remedy for dog bites
A root stylized as some dog would make perfect sense here.
I just thought I'll share this observation. Maybe someone will be able to make more of it
RE: F90v1 - houndstongue? - DG97EEB - 10-05-2026
Very nice.. and it's Hartlieb as well, who is someone a few of us think must have been involved... The only thing is, the blue flowers are wrong.. You see that only in the Chinese variety which was not in Europe at that time
RE: F90v1 - houndstongue? - Jorge_Stolfi - 10-05-2026
(10-05-2026, 12:45 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You see that only in the Chinese variety which was not in Europe at that time
Ahem!
But unfortunately I believe that the colors were added much later and were chosen at random, so that blue does not mean anything. Does the shape of the flowers, at least, match European houndstongue?
All the best, --stolfi
RE: F90v1 - houndstongue? - Bernd - 10-05-2026
Hartlieb's drawings are fairly generic and mostly lack roots and flowers, typical for later 15th century herbals. So I wouldn't give this too much attention. There might be a common source ancestor with VM drawings - or not. Hartlieb uses the same leaves for Pfefferkraut (Lepidium latifolium) on p. 110
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RE: F90v1 - houndstongue? - Koen G - 10-05-2026
...and the VM uses leaves much more like these generic ones in other drawings, e.g. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
RE: F90v1 - houndstongue? - Rafal - 10-05-2026
Quote:Hartlieb's drawings are fairly generic and mostly lack roots and flowers
Agree, actually the manuscript description says more or less the same:
The high costs of such a richly decorated book makes it highly unlikely that it was actually used by doctors or pharmacists of the time. Furthermore, the botanical imprecision of the 160 pictures would make an identification of a specific plant in nature difficult, not to speak of the ten animals whose images were added. Hartlieb’s work was obviously created for representational purposes, he himself being the long time personal physician of Duke Albrecht III. of Bayern-München.
And you definitely wouldn't recognize real plant by this picture
![[Image: 960px-Cynoglossum_officinale_190506a.jpg]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cd/Cynoglossum_officinale_190506a.jpg/960px-Cynoglossum_officinale_190506a.jpg)
RE: F90v1 - houndstongue? - JoJo_Jost - 10-05-2026
Well, I actually find the part about the dog quite convincing....
RE: F90v1 - houndstongue? - rikforto - 10-05-2026
(10-05-2026, 02:35 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Well, I actually find the part about the dog quite convincing....
And if not convincing, the alchemical-herbal tradition continues to rear its head! You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of an old presentation by Rene that touches on this. I thought he had mentioned the mnemonic nature of the drawings, but I don't see it. Perhaps I am remembering somewhere else he mentioned it, or perhaps You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. instead where he mentioned nutty visual puns, or perhaps I am misremembering a secret third thing. Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily discard it out of hand
RE: F90v1 - houndstongue? - Koen G - 10-05-2026
What would make that creature a dog though, other than being a quadruped?
RE: F90v1 - houndstongue? - rikforto - 10-05-2026
(10-05-2026, 06:03 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What would make that creature a dog though, other than being a quadruped?
So, on the one hand, I readily admit the "looks like" problem is not going to be solved today. On the other hand, I dunno, look, that's a good boy!