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+--- Thread: [Interview] Two videos about f116v (/thread-5162.html)
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Two videos about f116v - Koen G - 21-12-2025
Two weeks ago, I published the first of a two-part video on f116v. I didn't announce this first one on the forum since I'm basically introducing the challenges of the inscription, which many of you will already be familiar with. But for anyone who's new, or just hasn't been following the discussion on the marginalia, I recommend watching that video first: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Today, I uploaded the second part, an interview with Katherine Hindley, author of Textual Magic: Charms and Written Amulets in Medieval England. Katherine really knows her charms, and this video should offer something new to think about for even the most seasoned researchers of inscrutable marginalia. Enjoy!
RE: Two videos about f116v - LisaFaginDavis - 21-12-2025
Great idea to interview Katherine! She's a terrific scholar.
RE: Two videos about f116v - Antonio García Jiménez - 21-12-2025
Great video, as always
RE: Two videos about f116v - RobGea - 21-12-2025
Nice and solid video, props to Katherine Hindley as well.
RE: Two videos about f116v - kckluge - 22-12-2025
Well done video(s), as always. I love some of the comments:
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"Jan the apothecary says he can discern the hand of any man, he's taking wagers." VM Scribe: "Is that so?"
"VM Scribe: Hold my ale..." would also work there if you know your memes, and
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Eureka! Have you tried sprinkling goat's milk on goat's liver while chanting? Perhaps this invocation opens a portal of perception that allows the initiate to read Voynichese with ease.
Just remember what ChatGPT had to say when it translated the ritual invocation of a servitor of Cthulhu on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. from EVA into the original Aklo (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.):
Quote: ? Cautionary Note:
In this system, repeated |qokedy| forms a *resonant summoning chant*. It
should not be spoken aloud in sets of four unless protective glyphs (|
sholy|, |choldy|) are pre-inscribed.
RE: Two videos about f116v - Rafal - 22-12-2025
I would like to share my impressions about the videos.
I liked it a lot but still I am a bit dissapointed about the experts.
Well, hmmm, it looks a bit like a kind of charm...
Well, hmmm, it looks a bit like a kind of German...
They were generally very cautious and didn't deliver much new info. I don't blame Katherine as I understand she specialises in English charms and doesn't have to know German stuff well. But the German expert could do better.
One thing I personally learnt in that "n" symbol means "nomen" which is "name" and is a placeholder for a proper name used in the charm.
I would like to make a subtle distinction here - it looks like we don't have a cast spell here but a "spell template"
You know, there are cases when someone writes at the end of an old book: "Let the wrath of God reaches anyone who steals this book". In such case the curse was "used" and is already "working".
But if our charm contains "n" then it wasn't used for or against anyone. It is not working, not protecting the book or bringing good luck to the scribe. Only if someone says it loud putting a proper name instead of "n" it will start "working".
Currently such a disstinction seems totally useless but maybe one day it will help with understanding VM better.
RE: Two videos about f116v - Koen G - 22-12-2025
Experts have to be cautious when they don't know something for sure. Otherwise I might as well interview some theorists.
I cut out a lot of the interview because otherwise the video would have been over an hour. But one of the things Katherine said is that we can be absolutely certain that it's a charm (I asked this directly). So there's one thing we didn't know for certain before.
And we also learned some things. For example, what was new to me is that if the four lines belong together, the first line is almost certainly a header.
Something I also learned, is that this thing is even harder than I thought. I got it to some experts and groups that are the most qualified out there, even a group of scholars specialized in German recipes, and they didn't recognize it. That's not because they're all dumb, it's because the inscription is atypical, maybe mangled or incomplete.
The more I got to understand the context of regular charms, the more I saw that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. belongs to the same context. But ironically, understanding it better also made me realize we're very unlikely to ever understand it. That sucks, but it doesn't mean we have to start inventing stuff.
RE: Two videos about f116v - Rafal - 22-12-2025
All right, I suppose I was too harsh.
But yes, it is a little disappointing that the most accessible part of VM is so ... inaccessible.
RE: Two videos about f116v - ReneZ - 23-12-2025
(22-12-2025, 06:41 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Experts have to be cautious when they don't know something for sure.
That is exactly right. Having had numerous opportunities to talk with experts in different areas, that is one big lesson (of several) I learned. I heard the phrase "Well, we don't know that" only too often, when asking people about certain possibilities.
Speculation may be fun, but it is not science. Having had such discussions, it also becomes easier to recognise speculation in one's own thoughts.
Another lesson I learned was: "Dunning-Kruger" is real (and can be recognised). This was well before I knew that the phenomenon had a name.
RE: Two videos about f116v - DG97EEB - 23-12-2025
(23-12-2025, 12:28 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(22-12-2025, 06:41 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Experts have to be cautious when they don't know something for sure.
That is exactly right. Having had numerous opportunities to talk with experts in different areas, that is one big lesson (of several) I learned. I heard the phrase "Well, we don't know that" only too often, when asking people about certain possibilities.
Speculation may be fun, but it is not science. Having had such discussions, it also becomes easier to recognise speculation in one's own thoughts.
Another lesson I learned was: "Dunning-Kruger" is real (and can be recognised). This was well before I knew that the phenomenon had a name.
Bertrand Russell said "The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts"...