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+--- Thread: New images: Marci letter wax (/thread-4983.html)
New images: Marci letter wax - LisaFaginDavis - 11-10-2025
Hi, everyone,
Colin Layfield, Claire Bowern, and I spent a few hours with the Voynich Manuscript yesterday at the Beinecke. At Rene's request, I took some pictures comparing the stains inside the front cover with the wax stains on the Marci letter. They clearly allign in terms of rough size and distance from one another, although the shapes aren't the same, and it's difficult to see how the letter could have been folded and laid into the manuscript in such a way as to leave those stains. So I don't think we can say FOR SURE that those stains are related to the Marci letter's wax, although they certainly MIGHT be. Images here, including a close-up of the watermark:
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There are creases of several different folding patterns visible in the Marci letter, but because it has been carefully flattened it is not possible to see exactly how the letter was folded.
RE: New images: Marci letter wax - ReneZ - 12-10-2025
I can't remember ever having seen mention of the watermark.
It would be good if someone could identify it.
RE: New images: Marci letter wax - LisaFaginDavis - 12-10-2025
I've been trying, but no luck so far. The watermark website I generally rely is seems to be offline at the moment! You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: New images: Marci letter wax - ReneZ - 12-10-2025
That site works for me. My VPN is set to Germany.
It seems to have mostly older examples. I have seen up to 1540 or so.
RE: New images: Marci letter wax - Rafal - 12-10-2025
There is a big book on watermarks available online:
Briquet, Charles-Moïse
Les filigranes. Dictionnaire historique des marques du papier dès leur apparition vers 1282 jusqu'en 1600 avec 39 figures dans le texte et 16 112 fac-similés de filigranes
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Of course, I am not competent enough to say how good and actual it is
RE: New images: Marci letter wax - Koen G - 12-10-2025
Can anyone make out what the watermark depicts? I see a bell-shaped thing on the left but that's about it.
RE: New images: Marci letter wax - quimqu - 12-10-2025
(12-10-2025, 11:36 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Can anyone make out what the watermark depicts? I see a bell-shaped thing on the left but that's about it.
They seem to be 3 bells?
RE: New images: Marci letter wax - ReneZ - 12-10-2025
Using a 400 dpi scan of the letter, I could determine that its overall size is:
W = 21.1 cm , H = 30.7 cm
Of course, DIN A4 had not yet been invented, but this turns out to be very close to that size.
Now, using the next image:
- the width cf. the red arrow is 15.3 cm
- the height cf. the blue arrow is 22.2 cm
- the height cf. the green arrow is 22.9 cm
The size of the MS is W = 16.0 cm , H = 22.5 cm
This means that the letter, when folded along the lines ending at the red arrow (vertical fold) and the blue arrow (horizontal fold), would fit exactly in the MS.
While I am not clear how the wax seals figure into this, I have no doubt that this letter was once glued to the inside cover.
With respect to the modern cover, that was added (replacing an older cover) by the Roman Jesuits, traces of paper remnants on it clearly suggest that whatever was torn away by Wilfrid Voynich was not the Marci letter.
The other fold lines may be from refoldings by the Jesuits, or even Voynich himself.
RE: New images: Marci letter wax - Rafal - 12-10-2025
I believe there is a cross at the top of the middle "bell"
It feels a bit similar to these watermarks:
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However is probably none of those as they are earlier ones, before the year 1600.
RE: New images: Marci letter wax - LisaFaginDavis - 12-10-2025
Yes, I read it as three bells with a cross at the top. This is a common motif in early-modern paper. And yes, it's true that for the most part both Briquet and Piccard are pre-1600 so unlikely to find a match there.