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The Takeshi Takahashi transcription - Printable Version

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The Takeshi Takahashi transcription - ReneZ - 10-08-2017

I just noticed two days ago that the version of Takeshi's transciption that is in the interlinear file is quite different from the version on his web site.
First five line in interlinear file:


Quote:<f1r.P1.1;H>       fachys.ykal.ar.ataiin.shol.shory.cthres.y.kor.sholdy-
<f1r.P1.2;H>       sory.ckhar.o!r.y.kair.chtaiin.shar.are.cthar.cthar.dan-
<f1r.P1.3;H>       syaiir.sheky.or.ykaiin.shod.cthoary.cthes.daraiin.sa-
<f1r.P1.4;H>       o{&o'}oiin.oteey.oteos.roloty.cth*ar.daiin.otaiin.or.okan-
<f1r.P1.5;H>       dair.y.chear.cthaiin.cphar.cfhaiin=

His version:
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(I am not concerned about the comments and the wrappings, just the transcribed text.

I know that his transcription is being used by several people, and I wonder which of the two sources people tend to use.

I will try to contact him, to find out if he updated it in the meantime.

RE: The Takeshi Takahashi transcription - Emma May Smith - 10-08-2017

I use the one downloaded from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

RE: The Takeshi Takahashi transcription - davidjackson - 10-08-2017

I would think most people use the freie-literature.de version. I've never checked its accuracy...

RE: The Takeshi Takahashi transcription - ReneZ - 11-08-2017

Thanks to both!

I extracted the same 5 lines from it:


Quote:<f1r.P1.1;H>       fachys.ykal.ar.ataiin.shol.shory.cth!res.y.kor.sholdy!-

<f1r.P1.2;H>       sory.ckhar.o!r.y.kair.chtaiin.shar.are.cthar.cthar.dan!-
<f1r.P1.3;H>       syaiir.sheky.or.ykaiin.shod.cthoary.cthes.daraiin.sa-
<f1r.P1.4;H>       ooiin.oteey.oteos.roloty.cth*ar.daiin.otaiin.or.okan-
<f1r.P1.5;H>       dair.y.chear.cthaiin.cphar.cfhaiin=

and they appear (as expteced) to be the same as what I got from Stolfi's file directly.

To highlight the difference, this is what Takeshi's web page has:

Quote:fachys ykal ar ataiin Shol Shory cThres ykos Sholdy

sory cKhar or y kaer chtaiin Shar are cThar cThar dan
syaiir Sheky or ykaiin Shod cThoary cThes daraiin sy
doiin oteey oteos roloty cTh*ar daiin otaiin or okan
dair y chear cThaiin cPhar cFhaiin   

That Takeshi faithfully writes Sh for sh and cTh for cth is not an issue. A short script can convert back and forth between the two. What worries me more is the occurrence of "kaer" in the second line, while the interlinear file has "kair".
(In fact it does not have an "e" in any of the versions of this line).
There are more incidental differences like this.

To be continued....

RE: The Takeshi Takahashi transcription - davidjackson - 13-08-2017

Rene, have you had an update on this?

I note that the first paragraph now has an additional word on the end (not quoted in your snippet above) - ydaraiShy

But the differences start to creep in as from the second paragraph.


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. f1rInterlinear website
ü odar O"y  Shol cPhoy oydar Sh s cFhoaiin Shodary
yShey Shody okchoy otchol chscThy oschy dain chor kos
daiin Shos cFhol Shody    dain os teody
<f1r.P2.7;H>       *.odar.o.!!!!y.shol.cphoy.oydar.sh!.s.cfhoaiin.shodary-
<f1r.P2.8;H>       yshey.shody.okcho!y.otchol.chocthy.os!chy.dain.chor.kos-
<f1r.P2.9;H>       daiin.shos.cfhol.shody=

The free literatur website appears to produce all text in lowercase. There are also formatting errors on Voynich.com which could be down to page encoding. However, the difference between ie f1r.P2.9: dain os teody and daain shos cfhol shody are substantial..

RE: The Takeshi Takahashi transcription - ReneZ - 13-08-2017

Hi David,

I have not yet had a chance to contact Takeshi.

W.r.t. the missing word at the end of the first paragraph, this is a so-called 'title', and the majority of transcribers treat it as a separate 'locus'.

I agree that the differences are occasionally significant.

RE: The Takeshi Takahashi transcription - ReneZ - 24-08-2017

I just had a kind response from Takeshi.

He originally transcribed the text using capitalisation for chracters like Sh , cTh , etc.

When Stolfi introduced this in the interlinear file, these were converted to lower case.

After that, Takeshi has updated his transcription based a.o. on user feedback.

The interlinear file represents the status of around 1999 or 2000 or so, while Takeshi's
web site represents the current status.

RE: The Takeshi Takahashi transcription - davidjackson - 24-08-2017

....which has annoying consequences for those running transcription analysis off the interlinear file!

RE: The Takeshi Takahashi transcription - ReneZ - 24-08-2017

In principle, yes, but there are many different transcriptions from various different ages, and all have more or less significant errors.
One can consider each of them a 'snapshot'.

RE: The Takeshi Takahashi transcription - -JKP- - 18-06-2020

I don't want to go off-topic on the other thread, so I thought I would continue the Takahashi transcription commentary here.

Here is one of the problems with the Takahashi transcript. Once he gets used to certain patterns, he assumes they are part of the way Voynichese does things and imposes those assumptions on the text.

The following text clearly has spaces between EVA-d and "aiin"

   

and yet the transcription combines them as follows:

Takahashi transcription You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. line 12:  dchaiin daiin daiin

This makes "dain" look more frequent than it actually is.
  • It is not unusual for EVA-d to stand alone (with spaces on either side).
  • It is not unusual for "ain" to stand alone.
  • It is not unusual for other glyphs (besides d) to occur directly before "aiin".
So it should not be assumed that d is always supposed to be attached to aiin/ain/an when there are clearly spaces on both sides. These are not half-spaces (which are numerous in the VMS). These are full spaces. (There is a half-space in the first token dchaiin and I honestly don't know how to interpret it (one vord or two?) other than to record it as a half-space.)

A more true-to-the-original transcription would be dchaiin d aiin d aiin or possibly d chaiin  d  aiin d aiin