The Voynich Ninja

Koen,
As you'll probably know, since you read  pretty widely, I differ from you on this point.

Many figures have the length of the head equal to the distance between the neck and lower ribs  - and do so fairly consistently -whereas the norm in Europe was to have the head's length no longer than the distance from collar-bone to mid-breast.

When you add to that characteristic, the attenuated shanks versus large thighs evident in some of the 'bathy-' images, you have a custom in drawing which, though you and I agree it originates in the Hellenistic world, is not that of mainland Europe's graphic art.

It's quite a while since I published the research on this section, but part of the original work is incorporated into a summary post at 'retrovoynich' so if members will excuse, I'll just add a link. 
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Anyway, that's another 'take' on the issue - and civilized debate is ok - it's what Koen and I agreed was much wanted in this study. It's one of the reasons voynich.ninja seemed like a good thing to get going.

(02-10-2016, 04:47 AM)Diane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Many figures have the length of the head equal to the distance between the neck and lower ribs  - and do so fairly consistently -whereas the norm in Europe was to have the head's length no longer than the distance from collar-bone to mid-breast.

When you add to that characteristic, the attenuated shanks versus large thighs evident in some of the 'bathy-' images, you have a custom in drawing which, though you and I agree it originates in the Hellenistic world, is not that of mainland Europe's graphic art.


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Diane, thanks for the explanation.

Diane - what exactly we agree and disagree about is sometimes so complicated that I don't understand it myself. What I did in these post was show some classical statues as an example of idealized proportions. Then I showed a Carolingian manuscript as an example of "badly drawn proportions all over the place" imagery. Then I measured some arbitrarily chosen proportions on the Voynich nymphs and concluded that their proportions were consistent, but clearly not natural. This makes them different than both classical imagery and badly drawn images.

The (roughly) four head division confirms what you say about the ratio, adds a bit to it, and expresses it in numbers. 

What is it you disagree with?

JKP - I'm glad you saw I was having some fun with it as well I kind of lost my academically serious tone when I realized I was measuring 15th century belly buttons.


Does anyone know some manuscripts that may have similar proportions? I'd love to include any suggestions in the next post where I'll make a bunch of visual comparisons.

These are 1-year child proportions 

Searcher - hey, you are right. It's strange that the points of division are the same: chin, navel, knee. The figures clearly aren't infants though. Maybe there is some symbolism behind drawing people with young childrens proportions? In a cosmological context the association with one year might be relevant. Just thinking out loud, I have no idea...

(02-10-2016, 09:34 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Searcher - hey, you are right. It's strange that the points of division are the same: chin, navel, knee. The figures clearly aren't infants though. Maybe there is some symbolism behind drawing people with young childrens proportions? In a cosmological context the association with one year might be relevant. Just thinking out loud, I have no idea...

One of the things you'll find in many medieval and Renaissance drawings is that children are drawn like small adults. Perhaps it's because they were viewed that way, especially among the nobility where marriages were arranged in the toddler years and carried out in the early teens.

Also, I had another thought regarding adults. Many people were shorter then, often due to malnutrition. Perhaps some of them were proportioned differently. Also, among the nobility, deformities were common, due to inbreeding.

The children as adults thing is certainly true. Though in that case they precisely don't have these proportions. The VM proportions do resemble those given dwarfs and pygmies in certain Roman and Egyptian art. Especially also the wide upper legs are often seen in dwarfs. Though then again, I can't think of any reason to put a manuscript full of dwarfs or pygmies...

I can't judge about the reason of such proportions in the VMs, but the author of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. writes that sometimes disproportions of bodies were intentional "to focus attention on one body part (often the head)..."
One more idea:
as stars, constellations and planets (astrology on the whole) must influence on a newborn in a hour of his birth and over whole his life, this symbolism could be explained in such way.

(02-10-2016, 09:55 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The children as adults thing is certainly true. Though in that case they precisely don't have these proportions. The VM proportions do resemble those given dwarfs and pygmies in certain Roman and Egyptian art. Especially also the wide upper legs are often seen in dwarfs. Though then again, I can't think of any reason to put a manuscript full of dwarfs or pygmies...

People tend to draw what they know (especially if they are not artists and not skilled at drawing in a variety of ways) and it's not uncommon for people to draw others with proportions similar to their own, or similar to members of their families with whom they've been raised.

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Does anyone know some manuscripts that may have similar proportions? I'd love to include any suggestions in the next post where I'll make a bunch of visual comparisons.
[/quote]

For big heads I would look at Byzantine and Romanesque art. The proportions are improved a bit in the Gothic art and the Renaissance obviously brings back the classics. Outside Europe - Mayan manuscripts are pretty 'big headed'