Quote:Hello Thomas,
I just saw your message on the mailing list. This is a good analysis. While I applaud your effort, I have a few responses.
- 1. Your approach is interesting. Breaking the text into such bigram units is rather simple and elegant. However, what was the basis for approaching the text this way?
- 2. Have you done any automated tests to determine how much of the corpus fits this pattern? You claim that "Almost all of the Voynich text" fits. How much is "almost all"?
- 3. "If there is no other way to explain why the manuscript does this" - There have been many attempts to break down the text's predictable text into neat systems, and they do explain your patterns, and fit the text very well. Unfortunately, most are lost to the depths of the 90s internet so I don't have the links on hand and most of them don't work anymore anyway. Pelling mentions a few of them, and features a similar unit-based system You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. Pelling had another good post about how to evaluate how effective the word formation theories are, but I can't find it
- 4. How did you derive these particular bigrams? Why 26? Did you start from that number?
- 5. A lot of the text may fit because of some vagueness of the units. It might sound good that only 26 units make up so much text, but units 6, 9, 10, 15, 16, 24 and 26 have two possibilities each, so there are really 33 units. Then when considering your claim that the units can be reversed, there are over 60! Two of the units are only one letter long, which is kind of "cheating" when it comes to getting a good fit.
- 6. I think you may be overstating the significance of this system. Even if this pattern holds, how can you be certain that this is the pattern (or "the key") behind the Voynich Manuscript text, rather than a corollary of some other principles? For example, you have the units od, ot, op and ok. What if the "real" (i.e. deliberate) underlying system does not rely on bigram units at all, and one of its rules is that "o" attaches to tall-looking glyphs, and your common od/ot/op/ok bigrams are simply a side-effect of this? As I mentioned, there are many competing theories about word formation systems. For each proposal, there is the golden question: Does this system merely describe the features of the text or does it really explain them? Your theory is also subject to this, and you need to answer it before thinking that it could be "the key". It is not good enough to say that the theory has only a few simple rules yet all of the manuscript's text fits. Each of the theories can claim the exact same thing. Why would your theory have a better claim than the others?
- 7. If the only idea is that the text is made from your units, we would expect to frequently find words like amameeqo or chchchch, but we don't. There is more to the text's patterns. It is well-known that some glyphs appear near the start or end of words (e.g. q or m), and this applies to your units too. In your theory, is there an explanation for why such phenomena occur? That would help to accept that your pattern might be the text's actual system as originally intended.
- 8. "I believe that each unit may substitute for a Latin script letter". Why? In your post, there's an unexplained leap from suggesting a word formation system to suggesting a substitution cipher for a natural language.
Don't mistake all that for rejection. Your ideas are promising, they just need more fleshing out. I hope you find this criticism constructive.
Brian Cham
P.S. David, thanks for letting us type in EVA on the forum!! That was on my wishlist for a while.
Dear Brian,
Thank you for your questions - These are good points which I am glad you brought up. I numbered the bullets in your post:
1. I stumbled upon this idea when looking for grammatical cases actually. I tried to find units which repeated at the ends of words - such as
or, ar, y etc. to see if the language betrayed certain grammar features. I actually made a whole list of the
qo- words in this attempt:
[
attachment=528]
Trying to search for more cases, I broke down the two innermost circles of text in the May Zodiac rings. Since both pages referred to the same month, I figured that would be a way to find the word for "May" or "Taurus." What I found was that many words started with
oke- or
ote-. Making a list of these words, I realized that the same groups of letters that appeared at the ends of these words also appeared at the beginning - which would indicate that they are independent functioning units, and my mind immediately jumped to the idea of verbose cipher. Here is the picture from my notebook - I boxed in the set of characters that first made me come to this realization:
From there it was a small cognitive jump to realize that
all the repeating groups -
or, ar, y, aiin, qo, ch etc. - may be independent units that stand for 1 Latin alphabet character.
2. Have you done any automated tests to determine how much of the corpus fits this pattern? You claim that "Almost all of the Voynich text" fits. How much is "almost all"?
I have not done automated tests, but only because I don't know of any program that can do those tests and I don't have the programming knowledge to make one. So far I've only tried this breakdown by hand on about 20 pages, and in those pages, it works the grand majority of the time (98%) - the times it does not may be spelling errors.
3. I was not aware of Nick Pelling's system but I will definitely take a look now - thanks!
4. I actually did not start from 26. I only realized it was that many when I began to count the patterns that I hypothesized. I arrived at 26 by doing many, MANY trials, trying to figure out which characters appear before and after each individual voynich letters. Here are my notes on EVA y,d, and l:
As you can see, <l> is preceded by <o> so often that it is not random chance. It seemed to me that <ol> must be a combination, and there are 25 similar combinations that repeatedly appear.
5.
I admit that the possibility of reversing some combinations will bring up the number of possible units, but regardless whether <ar> or <ra>, for example, both should still only correlate to
one plaintext Latin letter. So it's not as if I'm devising a really loose system which will spell anything I want to read into the text - I've seen the pitfalls of that in other "decryptions"!
Regarding #6 and #15, I am firmly convinced that <
ch> = <
ee>. I can post a lot of places in the text which support this point, including many <
chh> ligatures. The same is true of <
Sh> = <
s h>. I'll post examples tomorrow, but I agree that at first sight this would seem like a weakness of my theory.
Regarding #16 and #26, the <
m> character apears in the exact same places that we see <
y>: most importantly after <
d>. Anyone who has spent time with the text knows that <
dy> is everywhere, but we also have <dm>. I believe they might be the same character. In the text, <
m> looks like <
y> with an extra loop at the top - I actually never realized this before trying to figure out what <
m>'s function was.
Regarding #9 and #10, those are just ways to incorporate the gallows, which only appear inconsistently in the text (always in the first line of a paragraph) which means they are likely a variant of another character. No natural language puts certain sounds only at the beginning of a string of speech, so they must be another letter in the text just written differently.
6. "
Does this system merely describe the features of the text or does it really explain them? Your theory is also subject to this, and you need to answer it before thinking that it could be "the key". It is not good enough to say that the theory has only a few simple rules yet all of the manuscript's text fits. Each of the theories can claim the exact same thing. Why would your theory have a better claim than the others?"
That is a good question. I think statistics would be the answer. If
l is
not supposed to function with <o>or <a>, why does it almost always appear with <o> or <a>? As in my graph paper at the top: 33/40 times with <o> and 7/40 with <a> - This suggests there is definitely an <ol> pattern in the text, and likely an <al> pattern also. The same is true for other letters for which I examined their place in relation to other letters.
To answer the question about the corollary, I am not sure. Perhaps the Voynich scribe did create some units by putting <o> near tall characters; I can't say he didn't. Whether he did or he didn't wouldn't affect the outcome, as long as the combinations still correlate to one Latin letter each.
7. I fully believe that the spaces in between words in the manuscript are fake. I don't think they mean anything: the choice to put a space before qo- words, in my mind, is completely arbitrary and just meant to mask the text.
8. "I believe that each unit may substitute for a Latin script letter". Why? In your post, there's an unexplained leap from suggesting a word formation system to suggesting a substitution cipher for a natural language.
The fact that these units repeat over and over, and the majority seem completely unrestrained to certain word positions (except for the ones like <qo> you mentioned - but for that see point 7). This means they are not case endings like Latin, but individual units with their own function. And that pointed me in the direction of individual letters with their own sound values.