The Voynich Ninja

If the vms is Alpine in origin, it might be more likely to depict a goat or ibex because it would be more familiar an animal? Especially if sheep could not traverse the terrain. 

It might depend on the art they had seen, even if they were not Alpine homesteaders, maybe grandma and grandpa were, and they had a lot of books that they passed down to our artist(s)?

or, as Stolfi says, city dwellers who didn't know the difference. Various other sectors of society who may never have been to sea, nor seen a fish, so to speak. Those that actually were at sea a lot also would not often see such things.

Someone mentioned a charm, I still have one somewhere, although I haven't seen the box it is in for some time. I am almost certain it is a goat with Aries written below. I don't know where it came from though, it could be European.

Wow I just did a search and I would say 2/3 were ibexes this time.
A sampling of what came up under "Aries charm" images:

Has the curly horns but the tail is Capra, looks like Capra ibex.

A little abstract, but I would say goat (milk?)

Another Ibex

Another ibex

A goat? Female ibex?


Maybe I have not seen enough sheep either but none of these look like sheep to me. Nor Mouflon, I just saw more posts I hadn't read). But maybe I am wrong that it continues to be confusing even today?

(30-07-2026, 09:28 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Another Capricorn standing to reach the leaves You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Kind of reminds me of the ibex tradition without the horns in the ground part. 

Goats.

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Sheep.

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Last summer in the Austrian Alps, I encountered a flock of sheep (the kind with weird, arched snouts, maybe Steinschaf). They roamed around well above the tree line, where the terrain is nothing but loose rocks. Weren't too afraid of me, but not quite approachable either.

Just an idea.
Why not have a look at old coats of arms?
Examples by name, region and town.
Examples:
Kanton Graubünden – Wikipedia
Gais AR – Wikipedia
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(31-07-2026, 08:23 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why not have a look at old coats of arms?

Because we're interested in Zodiac imagery.

(31-07-2026, 08:35 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Because we're interested in Zodiac imagery.

I realise that.
I’m thinking about how the animals were drawn.
You have to understand that people in the city also kept sheep and pigs. To look after the animals, there were swineherds and shepherds. These weren’t necessarily their own animals.
So people in the city would also have needed to know how to draw goats and sheep.

(31-07-2026, 09:19 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I realise that.
I’m thinking about how the animals were drawn.
You have to understand that people in the city also kept sheep and pigs. To look after the animals, there were swineherds and shepherds. These weren’t necessarily their own animals.
So people in the city would also have needed to know how to draw goats and sheep.

In certain cases, say if there is a crest containing a depiction of the animal that may be relevant to the VMS aries (position, species, setting) then it's worth mentioning I suppose. But to start collecting and rating seals/ coats of arms (other than unbelievably interesting/relevant examples) isn't feasible. 

In the context of mountain goat vs sheep, though, if you find examples of sheeps or rams being drawn as mountain goats, that's worth discussing as it gets to the heart of how people depicted the two, their overlapping features, where and when that happened etc. But then we need to be certain which animal was trying to be depicted, and why.

This is very rough at the moment, so please forgive the AI language etc, but attempting to consolidate manuscripts with different features.. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Unfortunately the majority is still French and the German ones are mainly unillustrated.. but you can filter and see ..

Deleted

I just found the pictures I took of the flock of sheep near the mountain summit, I like this one:

[attachment=16895]

But I'll repeat my opinion that natural observation is of limited importance when it comes to traditional image sequences.