Recently, I have researched the manuscript and have concluded its a conlang of some sort that's not an out right language. It does not have known properties of what acts like normal grammar. It repeats way to often. Maybe it's a book of chants. I have used eva to apply it to several languages to listen to the sound of MS-408. It's very exotic, yet it drums to a beat that you notice no matter what language you choose after several listening sessions. The repeat affect is over whelming.
Could a chemist reproduce the medieval inks and then lay the text down on 15th century vellum? How hard would that be to do and is it possible. Someone mentioned that the Iron Gall might be tomato paste. I have come across some forgery ideas about Wilfrid. Of course if the author of the MS-408 was a forger he would add provenance material as well.
Just because a document follows zipfs law that does not preclude it from behaving like near gibberish. It may contain some words, but might mostly be something that the mind may only comprehend if it had the inside scoop and the construction may have favored prefixes and suffix's. Is there any talk about a 1912 binding and why would that be?
(16-07-2026, 02:31 AM)conlangyalesbaby Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Recently, I have researched the manuscript and have concluded its a conlang of some sort that's not an out right language. It does not have known properties of what acts like normal grammar. It repeats way to often. Maybe it's a book of chants. I have used eva to apply it to several languages to listen to the sound of MS-408. It's very exotic, yet it drums to a beat that you notice no matter what language you choose after several listening sessions. The repeat affect is over whelming.
Don't be fooled. You can't read Voynichese and listen to its sound.
How can you describe it as an artificial language? How is it different? Can I write a story in it, have a conversation with someone, express my feelings, or maybe do some calculations?
A book of chants sounds a little better than a book of jokes...
(16-07-2026, 02:31 AM)conlangyalesbaby Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have used eva to apply it to several languages to listen to the sound of MS-408.
How did you manage to do that when the EVA is only a computer-readable transcription system and says nothing about the sound? And how did you "apply it to several languages"? What does that mean? Nobody, so far, has the faintest idea what Voynichese sounds like.
(16-07-2026, 09:31 AM)Oscroft Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (16-07-2026, 02:31 AM)conlangyalesbaby Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have used eva to apply it to several languages to listen to the sound of MS-408.
How did you manage to do that when the EVA is only a computer-readable transcription system and says nothing about the sound? And how did you "apply it to several languages"? What does that mean? Nobody, so far, has the faintest idea what Voynichese sounds like.
I imagine it went something like this: You are not allowed to view links.
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(16-07-2026, 02:18 PM)JoeyB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (16-07-2026, 09:31 AM)Oscroft Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (16-07-2026, 02:31 AM)conlangyalesbaby Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have used eva to apply it to several languages to listen to the sound of MS-408.
How did you manage to do that when the EVA is only a computer-readable transcription system and says nothing about the sound? And how did you "apply it to several languages"? What does that mean? Nobody, so far, has the faintest idea what Voynichese sounds like.
I imagine it went something like this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Ach, you got me, dammit!!!
(16-07-2026, 02:18 PM)JoeyB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I imagine it went something like this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Good one, I always appreciate those.
(16-07-2026, 02:18 PM)JoeyB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (16-07-2026, 09:31 AM)Oscroft Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (16-07-2026, 02:31 AM)conlangyalesbaby Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have used eva to apply it to several languages to listen to the sound of MS-408.
How did you manage to do that when the EVA is only a computer-readable transcription system and says nothing about the sound? And how did you "apply it to several languages"? What does that mean? Nobody, so far, has the faintest idea what Voynichese sounds like.
I imagine it went something like this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Maybe someone with an intellect will understand.
(16-07-2026, 10:14 PM)conlangyalesbaby Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (16-07-2026, 02:18 PM)JoeyB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (16-07-2026, 09:31 AM)Oscroft Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (16-07-2026, 02:31 AM)conlangyalesbaby Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have used eva to apply it to several languages to listen to the sound of MS-408.
How did you manage to do that when the EVA is only a computer-readable transcription system and says nothing about the sound? And how did you "apply it to several languages"? What does that mean? Nobody, so far, has the faintest idea what Voynichese sounds like.
I imagine it went something like this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Maybe someone with an intellect will understand.
Maybe You are not allowed to view links.
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Login to view. is more approriate.
Anyway, back to the title topic: Iron-gall ink was used to write on vellum until well into the 1900s. The US Bureau of Standards issued in the 1030s You are not allowed to view links.
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Login to view. to be used by US post offices. The Indian government issued a similar one in 1988. It seems that one can still get the ink and/or the ingredients from good art supply shops.
But I personally am convinced that the ink used for the text and drawing outlines of the VMS was not iron-gall ink, which is supposed to be waterproof; but rather a suspension of solid ocher-like pigment in a water-soluble binder -- that is, diluted watercolor paint -- which could be wiped off if moistened (with water or with food sauce).
Oak-gall ink was necessarily black; thus any writing with strong-colored ink that we see on Medieval manuscripts (like the ubiquitous "rubrics") is almost certainly of this "watercolor" type, hence not waterproof.
All the best, --stolfi
(17-07-2026, 12:31 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It seems that one can still get the ink and/or the ingredients from good art supply shops.
Just an aside... you can buy a variety of iron gall inks from UK suppliers, some plain black and some with other pigments or dyes added for variety. I have several that I like to use with fountain pens, and when the inks have matured a bit in colour they can look really nice. I'm not surprised iron gall inks retained so much popularity over the centuries.
I've always had half a mind to try and make some from scratch... just need to find some suitable galls.
(17-07-2026, 01:21 PM)Oscroft Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I've always had half a mind to try and make some from scratch... just need to find some suitable galls.
It will probably be easier to buy the ingredients from a lab supply store:
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Those are the smallest amounts I could buy. They are all quite cheap. I intended to make a YouTube video about it. Maybe one day...
All the best, --stolfi