The Voynich Ninja

An interesting statement about the 1452-3 map of the world by Giovanni Leardo:

Quote:The astronomical details are followed in the third paragraph by the explanation of the calendar. The latter consists of eight concentric circles, of which the innermost gives the dates of Easter for ninety-five years, from April 1, 1453, to April 10, 1547; when Easter falls in April, A is written in the small compartment, when in March, M; leap years are designated by B (“bissextile years”).

The second circle shows the names of the months, beginning with March, which was officially reckoned the first month of the year in the Republic of Venice until as late as 1797 [8]; it also tells the day, hour, and minute when the sun enters each of the twelve signs of the zodiac.

[8] H. Grotefend, Zeitrechnung des deutschen Mittelalters und der Neuzeit, Vol. 1, Hannover, 1891, p. 203 (reference kindly suggested by Dom Hugh G. Bévenot of Weingarten Abbey, Württemberg, Germany).

Do you think it's relevant that the VM starts with Pisces rather than Aries?
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(12-07-2026, 08:13 PM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do you think it's relevant that the VM starts with Pisces rather than Aries?

Yes, potentially. So far, i've only seen (or noticed) one manuscript that did this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Exactly like the VMS, the first zodiac symbol in the sequence is pisces. And also exactly like the VMS, the last two months (capricorn and aquarius) have been cut out at the end.

(12-07-2026, 08:36 PM)eggyk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(12-07-2026, 08:13 PM)Pierre Dumont Himself Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do you think it's relevant that the VM starts with Pisces rather than Aries?

Yes, potentially. So far, i've only seen (or noticed) one manuscript that did this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Exactly like the VMS, the first zodiac symbol in the sequence is pisces. And also exactly like the VMS, the last two months (capricorn and aquarius) have been cut out at the end.

That's a gorgeous one and the drawings are even worse than Voynich... At this point how can anyone actually bet against Germany/northern Italy?

Coming from the Virgo discussion: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Codex Guelferbytanus 8.7 Aug. 4°; Heinemann-Nr. 2973
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Found by eggyk
Virgo (f73) clothing, posture very similar.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - notice the small plant on the left of the female figure.

Taurus posture very similar
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Ty @Dracaena, continuing on from the virgo thread, this manuscript is very interesting and may provide some insights into some aspects of zodiac imagery usage in general. 

Firstly, there are 4-5 depictions of each zodiac, used in the following ways: 

As a sign associated with a personified planet,
In a section discussing the zodiacs specifically, 
In a section about comets, and
On a zodiac wheel. 

With so many depictions within a single manuscript, looking for any differences between the sequences may give us some insight.

Take, for example, the different depictions of sagittarius: 

[attachment=16599][attachment=16600][attachment=16601][attachment=16602][attachment=16603]

Note that sagittarius is sometimes depicted as fully human, and other times depicted as half human/half lion. The clothing changes too, in both colour and style. In fact, the first example has some lovely sleeves that would have been great to see on a virgo. But this is within different copied works in a single manuscript.

However, in another manuscript containing the exact same work, you can see that the depiction of sagittarius on the exact same page is different: 

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[attachment=16609][attachment=16610]

In other manuscripts, there are a mix of aspects. Some manuscripts contain both winged and non-winged virgo, some have both full man and half horse/half lion sagittarius, as well as many examples in others. Actually, in the Damstadt manuscript above, there is an example of exactly that happening: usage of both a half horse sagittarius and a full man. 
[attachment=16611][attachment=16612][attachment=16613][attachment=16614]

So what gives? Are these different traditions, blind copying of the source material, or something else?

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By the way, a preliminary version for every zodiac symbol sheet has been added, so all/most of these images can be found in the various sheets by ctrl+f with the manuscript name. You can access the sheets via the bar at the bottom: 
[attachment=16615]

I'm currently filling out all of the entries with images and links, but given the sheer amount of them it will take some time. Any criteria i've added for ratings are just first drafts to get obviously better entries higher up. It's the plan to start making individual threads to discuss those criteria over the coming weeks, probably once i've managed to set everything up. (too many ratings threads at once will be too much to handle right now).

Just a quick update/ patchnotes:

- A Homepage with a List of Contents has been added to better navigate to the various spreadsheets

- The sizing of everything on "up to date" sheets (taurus, virgo, categorisation) has been adjusted to accomodate a smaller screen by default 
      - Adjusting your zoom level to fit the width of the contents page (+ enough to see the text on the right in full) should now mean the other sheets are mostly readable
      - (Tested at ~100% zoom level on a 21.5" 1080p monitor, some sheets require ~90% zoom)
      - (I normally use a far larger screen so it's hard to gauge sometimes, especially with so many categories.   )

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Known issues being worked on:
- sizing on incomplete sheets is too large 
- some page links are broken or point to the wrong folio
- context / use cases are missing on many entries


If anyone has issues viewing/using the spreadsheet, or any other issues or questions please feel free to PM me here on Voynich Ninja and i'll try to sort it out.

For our Zodiac efforts, it might be worthwhile if anyone is able to expand the geographical scope a little bit to digitization deserts that may have had many relevant manuscripts. Czechia, Poland... Maybe Spain, though I'm not sure. Maybe more parts of Italy? Currently there is a huge dominance of German and French manuscripts, but for all we know the MS was made in Italy or even Prague. Currently the best Virgo is from a 1400-1410 MS from Prague, so this may be fertile ground if similar MSS can be found.

So, a couple of REALLY interesting manuscripts from the 11th(!) century here. 

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1026-1028AD
France N, Chartres

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1007AD
France, Orléans

The chartres sequence is a direct copy of the 1007AD manuscript. On top of this, the zodiac depictions are under the same months as the marginalia in the VMS: Pisces in march, Aries in april etc etc. 

These examples demonstrate perfectly how somebody copying something can change certain details, but keep others (the bottom is the original)

[attachment=16904][attachment=16905][attachment=16906][attachment=16907]
[attachment=16908][attachment=16909][attachment=16910][attachment=16911]
[attachment=16912][attachment=16913][attachment=16914]

Firstly, check out those long sleeves and those square top libra scales. Secondly, look at the dewclaws and feet on taurus:

[attachment=16915]

Other things of note as well:
The omission of a person carrying the scales in the copied version of libra, but a copying of the scale style,
The faces of pisces changing, 
The curve of the horns of aries are slightly different. 

Now, as for relevance in the VMS. Is it possible a manuscript like this -or a copy- could have existed and been copied in the 14th and 15th centuries? Clearly these two examples were around somewhere, as they survive to today. If the VMS shows a resemblance to a later copy of this work, could that explain why someone may have recognised the sequence, and wrote the intended months of the work in as marginalia?

I wonder to what extent people who haven't been obsessing over minute Zodiac details for the last month would recognize any relevance in this sequence  
Even though it won't necessarily score very well, I think it contains embryonic beginnings of things that will develop later into the VM Zodiac. But I think it's very unlikely that the VM artist copied directly from an earlier source, since this would assume a lot of creative input on their part, which happens to align with some contemporary traditions. 

Some of the details are spectacular, like Leo's overall body shape, low mane and overall pose. But the tail looping through the legs and sprouting up behind the back is clearly taken from other traditions. So again, you'd need some in-between steps.

Well spotted about the month names! Too bad the sequence starts with Capricorn.

(31-07-2026, 07:40 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I wonder to what extent people who haven't been obsessing over minute Zodiac details for the last month would recognize any relevance in this sequence  
Even though it won't necessarily score very well, I think it contains embryonic beginnings of things that will develop later into the VM Zodiac. But I think it's very unlikely that the VM artist copied directly from an earlier source, since this would assume a lot of creative input on their part, which happens to align with some contemporary traditions. 

Some of the details are spectacular, like Leo's overall body shape, low mane and overall pose. But the tail looping through the legs and sprouting up behind the back is clearly taken from other traditions. So again, you'd need some in-between steps.

Well spotted about the month names! Too bad the sequence starts with Capricorn.

Yes, the VMS is certainly not a direct copy of the 11thC versions of course. But I do wonder if this work was ever copied during the 13th 14th or 15th centuries? I would be curious to see how the sequences would look, which details would remain the same and which would change, and whether the position of zodiac->month would have been kept the same. To search that out would be like finding the "missing link" in human evolution 

But in any case, there is at least precedent of somebody drawing the zodiacs a month later than "normal" in a deliberate fashion, which has implications for whether or not the later month marginalia were definitely "wrong". It's possible works like this could have maintained some relevance in some niche places somewhere, but I don't know.