The Voynich Ninja

JKP
I know what you mean about being able to communicate by written language when verbal communication fails.  I was fascinated during the time spent in Japan by the way that people would clarify which homophone was meant by writing the kanji invisibly on their hand while their friend watched.  Enthusiastic nodding.. so, so ..

WitchMountain

Quote:Straightforward answer: Because most people on this board do not speak Chinese

- so true.

D.

PS - hope these not O.T. responses, Anton.

(13-11-2016, 01:15 PM)Diane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.PS - hope these not O.T. responses, Anton.

It's all good

(06-05-2016, 09:18 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.All the 15 occurrences of the two prefixes give a consistent match on 7 different zodiac signs. A possible hypothesis is the existence of some kind of equivalence:
Shed- masculine (diurnal)
ched- feminine (nocturnal)

There is another possible interpretation, based on the classical association of the zodiac signs with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.:
Aries, Leo, Sagittarius correspond to Fire (hot and dry)
Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn correspond to Earth (cold and dry)
Gemini, Libra, Aquarius correspond to Air (hot and wet)
Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces correspond to Water (cold and wet)

So, the masculine signs are “hot” and the feminine signs are “cold”. Another possible interpretation is:
Shed- hot
ched- cold

I just noticed that f77r/v might provide some support for the idea that shed is related with Galen's qualities (even if not necessarily hot/cold).
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. suggests that EVA:otol otol might identify one of the elements.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. seems to compare two modified versions of otol on the two sides of the illustration:

• on the left otol.shedy otol.shedy  
  
• on the right otolor otolor
  

My superficial impression is that the right branch might be hot or wet, since the cloud-band on the right seems to be steaming. It could be hot water, or wet air for instance.

Marco,
Fyi - I've done a full analysis of this diagram, in which I explained that the previously-believed formless shape was to be identified as a 'branch', which makes me curious as to why you use that term.  Anyway, the reason for it is... as is the case with almost all pre-modern imagery regardless of origin... linguistic.  Pictures should not be treated as if they were 'failed portraits' they are to be read, being formed of enunciated thoughts appropriate to their original maker's time, environment and above all else... LANGUAGE.

In this case, what we see is a representation of the original matter from which - here - the FIVE elements emerge.  In every particular the diagram expressed ideas originating in Greek philosophy, but the presence of FIVE elements tells us this particular enunciation is not from the Latin medieval west.  All the wriggling I've seen others do to fit the diagram to the Latin foot (like Cindarella's slipper on an ugly stepsister) can't quite manage it.  The reason it looks like wood is that the Greeks used 'hyle' of the original matter, and it is that word which also means a wood or branch.  Not an idea natural to the Latin world, though (as I also explained) conveyed at least in Isidore's text.

The reason the diagram cannot be informed only by a Latin who knew that 'hyle' meant a shapeless branch sort of 'wood' is that the Latins saw the physical world as formed from only four elements.  Aether was NOT one of the elements informing the world below. It belonged to the higher, non-terrestrial part of creation.

So then, finding that the maker of the image actually thought in Greek, and that the '5 elements' system which informs the perceptions of the east is here, but did not affect the Mediterranean world except during the (first) period of Manichean influence, so the obvious inference is that the image was first enunciated in a Greek-speaking environment, either in an environment strongly affected by Asian mores (including the Indian), or that it was first enunciated before eradication of Manichaean beliefs from the Mediterranean.  More detailed study - to find an elements series exactly parallel to the order of these five, and some explanation for the two supporters and their supports -  led me to conclude finally that this particular diagram was first enunciated in north Africa or, more likely, in Egypt during the early centuries AD.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the 'steaming' bit, but assume you are referring to the second detail, with the lady on the seat.

It's an entirely different diagram, relating to rather different matters: not the nature of the five elements but (as I have read it) a description of the different sources for gold: but I won't repeat it all here, or now.  The information has been available, published online, for some time now.  I do hate to see time wasted going over and over matter already known, or already explained, or in sudden 'discovery' of things said long ago, by someone else.

Different sources for gold? That's quite intetesting since it would be merged with an image of the queen Cassiopeia.

Koen,
Am I right in thinking that the central figure has been identified with  Cassiopia in your own writing, or is it another person's idea?   In either case, I don't find enough in the image to allow me to agree or to disagree with you - and in adding the following, I'm only showing that the maker might have made such an association, mostly by instinct, because Cassiopia is (in a sense) the golden constellation: 
the wiki just repeats the obvious - but will do.
"The constellation hosts some of the most luminous stars known, including the yellow hypergiants You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and white hypergiant You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The semiregular variable You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is one of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. 

(rho Cass isn't part of the 'W')

the number of images online makes it unnecessary to add one here, but the following seems the least dramatised and includes the r star)

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Diane: Cassiopeia is one of the few constellations that has been proposed by others before me. This is because there are a few unique elements that set her aside from the other nymphs. Especially the throne, which is little more than a box in some illustrations, in combination with the rare forward facing perspective.

I think there's also references to the milky way, in which Cassiopeia is one of the most obvious constellations.

terae - earth
eaue - water
air - air
feu - fire
aiers pur - pure air



Huntington EL26A3

-JKP-

I gather your diagram is a response to my noting, above, that for medieval Latin Europe, aether was not one of the four elements which composed the world of humankind, but a material of the outer, divine sphere.  It's a nice illustration of that fact of history, though we hardly need to illustrate it, it is so well known. But thanks for the support.
In a recent post (30th.Nov. 2017), I also illustrated the same with in image from BNF fr.565, a manuscript which has been a current topic of late, so I add that below. 

I provided a detailed analysis and explanation for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. when treating that section of the ms.  The initial post went up on 25th.October, 2012, and additional technical information, textual references and so forth were provided in a later post called 'You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.' (31st October 2016). 

Hope it helps move this topic forward a little, because I agree it is not easy to change from seeing this unusual imagery as if it were part of mainstream Latin culture and understand it as did the makers and the people for whom it was originally made.  They, obviously, knew the word 'hyle' and their philosophy imagined the world formed of 5 elements, listed in the order shown in that diagram.  (as I've explained in more detail in those posts)

I should be clear, though, that I have not found anything in the manuscript to suggest the practices of astrology.  I'd call it astronomical in the looser sense, and I would expect the imagery to reflect cultural associations for the various stars and constellations, and perhaps some sort of moralia. 

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

No need to thank me. I posted it because it was relevant to the thread, not for any reason specific to your post.

I also posted it because it shows variant spellings that might be of interest to those trying to make sense of VMS labels.