The Voynich Ninja

(26-03-2026, 10:05 PM)oeesordy Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are we dabbling in semantics?

Of course we have to.

(26-03-2026, 12:20 AM)oeesordy Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is a question I posed online.  Are flowers really important to a medicinal document?

Sometimes the flowers are indeed the part of the plant with supposedly medicinal properties.  Chamomile is an example.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. should have more examples. 

But otherwise flowers are an essential detail for identifying a plant, even if the drug may be some other part.  There are many, many examples of unrelated plants with similar leaves.  Like oak and poison oak...

Quote:Maybe the snake was the reminder of what the plant was for.

Indeed that seems to have been a common artistic convention for plants that allegedly were good for snake bites.  

And you should check Marco Ponzi's transcription of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  (I particularly like the Herba Folio (#48) whose juice can make iron so hard that it will cut any other iron.  And it is proven.  Unfortunately it seems that we lost the page describing Herba Foobaris, whose juice makes iron armor so hard that it will resist being cut by any other iron.)

That book (or book genre -- was there more than one?) was popular around that time.  I guess we could call it "Botanical Fiction" -- like Science Fiction, Historical Fiction, or Geographic Fiction (a genre quite popular until 1800 or so), but with plants instead of planets, kings, or unknown islands...

Quote:could it be the artist being the author was not so good with depictions.  ... I conclude that the artist was an amateur.

That would be a very generous assessment of his ability...
 
All the best, --stolfi

The botanical accuracy was not priority in many medieval herbals which often represented the plants stylized or schematically.
 For example consider the garlic representation from "Gart der Gesundheit" (1485) and the build in its translation in "Ivan the Terrible Travnik". Neither the first nor the second image would be recognizable from the contermporary man if not for the description. 
However the text lists that the garlic remedies are so numerous-  from head lice to intenstinal worms to heart ailments,  that the today medical practitionaries would never dream of... 
It starts also with the history of the great Masters in medicine- what they have written about the herb.[attachment=14907]

I believe that authors of medieval herbals never cared for accuracy of the pictures.

Let's face the truth, in 99% of cases they were some nerdy guys who almost never left the scriptorium   
They didn't walk the meadows and check how these plants really look like. 
They were copying them from another existing herbals, often adding new mistakes to already existing ones without any reality check.

And it was not a problem.

An illustrated herbal was quite expensive and was something much more prestigious than practical. 
It wasn't used to collect herbs. It was supposed to lie on your shelf and make impression on your patients if you were a doctor. Or it was made for rich people just for fun, often going together with bestiary containing dragons and unicorns.

Herbs on meadows weren't collected by educated men carrying herbals. They were collected by village women who didn't need herbals because they had their traditional lore.

It only changed later, in the time of Renaissance. Then plants in the books became more realistic just like any pictures became more realistic then.

For people interested in this topic, I can only recommend to read the book:
Collins, Minta: Medieval herbals: the illustrative traditions , British Library Studies in Medieval Culture, 2000.

This explains many of these points: how herbals could have various different purposes, and the (lack of) quality in their illustrations.
That the illustrations should be there to aid the reader in better recognising the plant, is a completely normal thought for us modern people, but this was not the case at the beginning of the 15th century.
Plenty of herbals were not illustrated, but these are never mentioned in Voynich discussions, for obvious reasons.

(26-03-2026, 09:33 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think ...........
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Interesting. I could see this being the case. The long stolons can indicate its propensity for overgrowth and entanglement. My workplace has this plant in the yard so I am familiar with its tendencies. It tastes pretty terrible, by the way. But I think I remember it being used medicinally. I believe (though have not tried) that the flowers can also be used to make a colour changing syrup (ie in lemonade the blue colour turns pink) However the roots aren't bulbous. This could refer to the galls it can have, although I have never seen them with galls. But that could explain the larvae in the drawing since they gestate in the galls. It is also noted to be a vermifuge, so that could be a worm related property also, but wouldn't explain the roots.

This outlines edible andmedicinal properties.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I entered the Latin binomial, and added the words worms and snakes, and the Ai came back with the following:

Creeping Charlie (Glechoma hederacea), invasive "snake" worms, and actual small snakes (like the Eastern worm snake) often inhabit the same moist, shaded, and undisturbed environments, forming a complex and sometimes problematic garden ecosystem.
Creeping Charlie (Ground Ivy)
Characteristics: An invasive, creeping perennial weed with scalloped leaves, square stems, and purple flowers.
Habit: Spreads via stolons (above-ground runners) that root at nodes, forming dense mats that choke out turfgrass.
Management: It thrives in moist, shady areas with moderate fertility. It is hard to remove, as even small fragments can re-root.
Control: Effective control methods include using herbicides containing triclopyr or dicamba in spring or fall, or using physical barriers like plastic tarps to smother it (solarization).

Reddit
+4
Jumping "Snake" Worms (Amynthas spp.)
Behavior: Invasive earthworms that wiggle violently like snakes when disturbed.
Impact: They consume organic matter rapidly, leaving behind granular, coffee-ground-like soil that cannot hold nutrients or support native plants.
Identification: They are often 1–5 inches long, brownish-gray, with a firm body and a milky white, smooth clitellum (band).
Control: Difficult to eliminate; methods include removing them by hand when found and disposing of them in the trash, not compost.

Vermont Public
+4
Eastern Worm Snake (Carphophis amoenus)
Description: A tiny, harmless snake that resembles an earthworm, with a glossy, dirt-colored body.
Habit: They are fossorial (live underground or under debris) and feed almost exclusively on earthworms.
Habitat: Often found in the same cool, moist, shady areas as Creeping Charlie.

YouTube
+1
Interactions and Management
Connection: Creeping Charlie provides ideal, cool, humid cover for snakes and other creatures to hide.
Removal: While some prefer to keep them, others try to remove Eastern worm snakes by making the area less moist.
Herbicide Caution: Using certain weed killers, especially when overapplied, can kill beneficial worms and harm the garden ecosystem.