The Voynich Ninja

Full Version: Palatino 766 pipes, pools, cliffs, streams... (by Taccola)
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You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. a link to Palatino 766 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I'm opening a new thread about it, because I think we'll need it. One of the sources for Q13 must have been an engineering manuscript much like this one (remember also the fountain discussion earlier).

See this folio: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

A bridge with a pipe pumping water over a valley from a lake to the city. A small waterway connects the lake to the river in the valley.
The river comes down from the top of the page and runs vertically to the bottom, with a curve to the bottom right.
It cuts into the landscape, leaving a deep, undulating shoreline.
A technique of parallel lines is used so shade the cliffs.

Am I describing a page from a renaissance book of engineering, or from VM f75r? Well, apart from the end point of the bridge, apparently both.

[attachment=13739]

The artistic techniques employed are similar as well. The cliffs' faces are done with vertical parallel lines. Water in small streams has long lines inside that run parallel with the shorelines. 

[attachment=13740]

Another page that caught my eye is this one: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Notice the outlet, the inlet, the smooth raised basin, the segmented pipes arching in from the mountains...

[attachment=13741]

There are other things in the MS as well, similar to the fountain we discussed earlier: long, vertical pipes with water coming out, which is quite rare in manuscripts. But Q13 does seem to be inspired by it. 

I talked to Marco about this, and he suspects there's a decent chance these images are original to the 1432-1433 manuscript by Taccola. If true, this would have implications about the VM.
(29-01-2026, 07:50 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. a link to Palatino 766 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

I'm opening a new thread about it, because I think we'll need it. One of the sources for Q13 must have been an engineering manuscript much like this one (remember also the fountain discussion earlier).

See this folio: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

A bridge with a pipe pumping water over a valley from a lake to the city. A small waterway connects the lake to the river in the valley.
The river comes down from the top of the page and runs vertically to the bottom, with a curve to the bottom right.
It cuts into the landscape, leaving a deep, undulating shoreline.
A technique of parallel lines is used so shade the cliffs.

Am I describing a page from a renaissance book of engineering, or from VM f75r? Well, apart from the end point of the bridge, apparently both.



The artistic techniques employed are similar as well. The cliffs' faces are done with vertical parallel lines. Water in small streams has long lines inside that run parallel with the shorelines. 



Another page that caught my eye is this one: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Notice the outlet, the inlet, the smooth raised basin, the segmented pipes arching in from the mountains...



There are other things in the MS as well, similar to the fountain we discussed earlier: long, vertical pipes with water coming out, which is quite rare in manuscripts. But Q13 does seem to be inspired by it. 

I talked to Marco about this, and he suspects there's a decent chance these images are original to the 1432-1433 manuscript by Taccola. If true, this would have implications about the VM.

I posted this yesterday as well... Must be something in the water...
Actually I think the MS was first posted to the forum here by @DG97EEB
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(29-01-2026, 08:07 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Actually I think the MS was first posted to the forum here by @DG97EEB
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Thanks Koen.. was more laughing at the coincidence, but appreciate the citation Smile
(29-01-2026, 08:13 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thanks Koen.. was more laughing at the coincidence, but appreciate the citation Smile

Well, I think it's safe to say you were the one to put it on our radar. 

And luckily I know every line of the drawings of Q13 by heart Smile
I've been focusing on Voynich images for 10 years now, with ups and downs. But this one may turn out to be the most significant of all.

An additional detail: notice how in the Voynich drawing, the "bridge" has one blue band, which would coincide with the water pipe.
(29-01-2026, 07:50 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. a link to Palatino 766 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
See this folio: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Yup, I can believe the VMS Scribe copying that illustration, of course without understanding it at all.

Quote:I talked to Marco about this, and he suspects there's a decent chance these images are original to the 1432-1433 manuscript by Taccola. If true, this would have implications about the VM.

According to Wikipedia, the guy was famous through Europe, so copies of his manuscript must have been available all over the place.  And the copies may have mangled drawings already...

But the dates of Taccola's work then would imply that the VMS was written on a stash of vellum that was decades old, at least...

All the best, --stolfi
(29-01-2026, 08:19 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(29-01-2026, 08:13 PM)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thanks Koen.. was more laughing at the coincidence, but appreciate the citation Smile

Well, I think it's safe to say you were the one to put it on our radar. 

And luckily I know every line of the drawings of Q13 by heart Smile
I've been focusing on Voynich images for 10 years now, with ups and downs. But this one may turn out to be the most significant of all.

An additional detail: notice how in the Voynich drawing, the "bridge" has one blue band, which would coincide with the water pipe.

There you go then 2 good manuscript finds.. am I redeemed for the dodgy AI translations ? ?
Another example how how the VM artist seems to try to emulate techniques. Rim, upper part dark, water lines start from middle.

[attachment=13742]
I only found the sun with pipes because of DG97EEB's mention in the flat top roots thread. I didn't catch the similarities with the balneological section but I think it's interesting that the author also drew flat-top roots as mentioned by Marco here:
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Looking at Taccola's other works seems promising.
(29-01-2026, 08:54 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But the dates of Taccola's work then would imply that the VMS was written on a stash of vellum that was decades old, at least...

Many implications of this connection go against my personal beliefs about the VM. But those are worthless in the face of new evidence.

I wouldn't necessarily say decades old. Making a copy doesn't take more than a year, so if any copies were made, those could have already been elsewhere before 1435 and within the radiocarbon dated range. But yes, it's later than I would have thought.

I also frequently argued against the notion (maybe introduced by Nick Pelling?) that the parallel hatching in the MS showed familiarity with renaissance techniques. While it's still not the subtle cross-hatching we get in later artists, there may have been more truth to that idea than I thought. It does seem to be mimicking drawing techniques straight from a renaissance source.
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