(07-04-2016, 09:42 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Then is not the third graph erroneous? If I understand correctly, according to that graph there should be ~7000 words with suffix c, - i.e. ending with c.
In most cases, a single letter is not considered a suffix unless it can also be considered a syllable or single-letter modifier.
For example, in the word "finally" the "-ly" would be considered a suffix, the "y" is not (at least not in this instance).
A "y" by itself can sometimes be considered a suffix as in scanty or flinty where it modifies the word on its own.
In the word tally, neither the -ly nor the -y are suffixes, the -ly is just part of the word.
So whether it's a suffix depends on the construction of the word to which it is attached and whether the suffix can be variously used to modify a number of different words.
JKP, i was expecting such a remark and of course, because you are right.
I can explain how this happend: in the beginning...MarcoP started with that definition and because i want to compare that method with my first-last letter method, it was already hard to explain that, i did not want to make things more complex and confusing and we held onto the "prefix-suffix" naming.
Anton:
We considered only words length>=4.
Wordcount with letter c on any position: 11887 words (i use another text now than for the matrix above)
Quote:If so, then 7088 words end with c? Can this be true?
NO. 7088 words have the prefix -c
The concept of the "prefx-suffix" is counting the occurence of 2 letters at the same time in that combination
So if you look at prefix-suffix-> c- i -> occurs only once -> we need to look for a word that looks like c..... and following word i......
(08-04-2016, 10:34 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (07-04-2016, 09:42 PM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Then is not the third graph erroneous? If I understand correctly, according to that graph there should be ~7000 words with suffix c, - i.e. ending with c.
In most cases, a single letter is not considered a suffix unless it can also be considered a syllable or single-letter modifier.
For example, in the word "finally" the "-ly" would be considered a suffix, the "y" is not (at least not in this instance).
A "y" by itself can sometimes be considered a suffix as in scanty or flinty where it modifies the word on its own.
In the word tally, neither the -ly nor the -y are suffixes, the -ly is just part of the word.
So whether it's a suffix depends on the construction of the word to which it is attached and whether the suffix can be variously used to modify a number of different words.
I was not inquiring about the term "suffix" in the linguistic sense of the word, but about the narrow sense that
Davidsch and
MarcoP use it for the purpose of their analysis. And David explained You are not allowed to view links.
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Login to view. that they mean 1-letter suffixes (and prefixes).
Quote:NO. 7088 words have the prefix -c
OK, I guess that your system of designation in the graphs is a bit confusing. Like e.g. in the fourth graph from above it says: "x axis: suffix", but actually the suffix values are broke down and counted along the y axis, while it is prefixes (and not suffixes) that are listed along the x axis.
Since the word suffix is a linguistic term with a fairly specific meaning which may have considerable impact on how the VMS text is evaluated, perhaps it would be better to refer to "word endings" when "suffix" is not actually meant.
A "word ending" could be any length... it could be a 2-letter ending, 1-letter ending with no linguistic connotations, to help preent it from being confused with a suffix which is linguistic unit that is added to words in a specific way.
yes, good suggestion. Changed some words...
In You are not allowed to view links.
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We know that "y'-ending takes about 40% in the text of the VMs.
Comparison with Greek texts shew that it is possible to find 40% of the word final letter "-n" (-ν) in some fragments of texts. Of course, I doubt that this statistics will be true for the whole text, nevertheless this iis already more then in Latin. In general, it may be possible in a monotone text with similar descriptions, listings.
1. Προσέχετε τὴν ἐλεημοσύνην ὑμῶν μὴ ποιεῖν ἔμπροσθεν τῶν ἀνθρώπων πρὸς τὸ θεαθῆναι αὐτοῖς· εἰ δὲ μήγε, μισθὸν οὐκ ἔχετε παρὰ τῷ πατρὶ ὑμῶν τῷ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς.
2. Ὅταν οὖν ποιῇς ἐλεημοσύνην, μὴ σαλπίσῃς ἔμπροσθέν σου, ὥσπερ οἱ ὑποκριταὶ ποιοῦσιν ἐν ταῖς συναγωγαῖς καὶ ἐν ταῖς ῥύμαις, ὅπως δοξασθῶσιν ὑπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων· ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν, ἀπέχουσι τὸν μισθὸν αὐτῶν.
This fragment is Matthew 6: 1-2. It contains 58 words, and 25 of them end with
"-n", i. e., take 43% of this text.
As I said, the number of these ends vary through the text, and another parts can contain much less, but I think this is the best that I could see in the mentioned context. Especially if a Greek text is transliterated in Latin, the variety of the rest of the frequent Greek word ends may decrease:
ε and
ὴ = e;
ὸ and
ῷ = o.
I need to say that not all Greek versions of the Bible contain such a big number of the final letter "n", I took the You are not allowed to view links.
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If you look at my Greek text Dna, you can quickly compare the afixes in Greek with the VMS.
I've also done other comparisons which go much deeper (2-grams and cohesion of words etc.) between languages.
Conclusion: there is no resemblance based on letters and letters in words as-is-presented and discussed here. What remains possible are other perceptions.
(23-05-2020, 09:21 PM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.We know that 'y'-ending takes about 40% in the text of the VMs.
There is a systematic difference between the two Currier 'languages'.
In Currier A 3664 out of 11415 tokens (32%) end with EVA-[-y].
In Currier B 9845 out of 21582 tokens (46%) end with EVA-[-y].
The value for the whole text is 40.6 %.
Other typical ending glyphs are [n], [l], and [r].
6064 out of 37919 tokens (16.0 %) end with [-n]. (Currier A = 15.7 % | Currier B = 16.9 %)
5909 out of 37919 tokens (15.6 %) end with [-l]. (Currier A = 18.4 % | Currier B = 14.4 %)
5689 out of 37919 tokens (15.0 %) end with [-r]. (Currier A = 16.8 % | Currier B = 13.2 %)
Rarely used ending glyphs are [s] and [o].
1345 out of 37919 tokens (3.6 %) end with [-s]. (Currier A = 4.6 % | Currier B = 2.3 %)
1173 out of 37919 tokens (3.1 %) end with [-o]. (Currier A = 5.0 % | Currier B = 2.1 %)
The dominance of certain glyphs in fixed locations is in my eyes an interesting observation for the Voynich text (see Timm & Schinner 2020, p. 10).
In You are not allowed to view links.
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(22-05-2020, 10:28 PM)Torsten Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]There are 17655 words containing EVA-[y]. The glyphs before [-y-] are[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]in 6850 cases [d] (38.8 %)[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]in 4034 cases [e] (22.8 %)[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]in 2329 cases [h] (13.2 %)[/font]
[font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif]in 1360 cases a gallow glyph (7.7 %).[/font]
I thought it would be also useful to see these statistics in total, regarding to the whole word-tokens ends. My statistics differ a little, most likely because of different transcriptions that we use, but I don't think it affects the final result too much.
e - 3499 (10.5 %)
l - 5473 (16.5 %)
n - 5431 (16.4 %)
r - 5048 (15.2 %)
d - 6395 (19.3 %)
o -1082 (3.25 %)
s - 1085 (3.25 %)
ch - 845 (2.55 %), if
h, then - 2010 (6 %)
k - 679 (2 %)
Totally counted - 91.55 % (95 %).
8.45 % (5 %) - the rest of the word ends.
(These statistics are just an experiment for that case, if "-y" is a null-characted.)