08-01-2026, 05:49 PM
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08-01-2026, 05:49 PM
08-01-2026, 07:00 PM
There are a lot of assumptions being made to say any of these words are agglutinative. Agglutinative languages are made up of modular parts, crucially with one grammatical meaning per morpheme. It is not clear that these forms have grammatical meaning, semantic meaning, or that they are affixing the way predicted by describing them as affixes. Even allowing for all that, they still might be fusional. It's also not clear what precisely constitutes a morpheme here; the in iin iiin problem rears its head again. I don't think any of these are unreasonable assumptions to explore from, but they can hardly be taken for granted!
Comparisons to Turkish have been You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., and while its not possible to rule out a more sophisticated encoding, any similarity in the word structure is bedeviled by the fact that letter order if fairly rigid. There probably isn't enough information in each of those supposed morphemes to get the whole range of Turkish words because the alphabet is too small. The apparent suffixing may (and I stress may) be an artifact of the ways in which glyphs are restricted across words rather than a principled grammatical phenomenon
Comparisons to Turkish have been You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., and while its not possible to rule out a more sophisticated encoding, any similarity in the word structure is bedeviled by the fact that letter order if fairly rigid. There probably isn't enough information in each of those supposed morphemes to get the whole range of Turkish words because the alphabet is too small. The apparent suffixing may (and I stress may) be an artifact of the ways in which glyphs are restricted across words rather than a principled grammatical phenomenon
08-01-2026, 07:53 PM
Quote:That's easy even without looking: choldaiin, qopchedy...
Okay, it is a point.
Actually the longest words in Voynichese seem to be built of two "normal" words.
But I am unconvinced if it is a sign of agglutination because they are rare and irregular. Apart from qo- there are no obvious common prefixes and suffixes in Voynichese.
And with truly agglutinative language you should have really long words.
09-01-2026, 12:23 AM
(08-01-2026, 05:49 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(08-01-2026, 02:43 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are you able to give some examples of agglutinative words from Voynich Manuscript?
That's easy even without looking: choldaiin, qopchedy...
I didn't count, but I suspect that there are not many.
Stolifi's grammar lists them.
Then again, I have no idea how many there would be in Turkish.
17-01-2026, 01:57 PM
Thank you for this detailed and methodical presentation. Your framework is remarkably close to what my analysis has independently confirmed - which I find validating for both of us.
Where we strongly agree:
1. Medical-pharmaceutical handbook - Yes. My corpus analysis shows the most common word (1,847 occurrences) is consistent with a medical text focused on preparations.
2. Avicennian framework - Absolutely. My historical validation phase found 80% overlap with Canon of Medicine pharmaceutical terminology.
3. Padua/Northern Italy, early 15th century - The botanical identifications in my analysis point to Mediterranean/Northern Italian species, consistent with your dating.
4. Celestial timing as practical interface - My translation of the biological folios shows systematic references to lunar phases and planetary hours for treatment timing - not abstract astrology, but operational instructions.
5. Four humors + bathing sections - The "nymphs" in the biological section appear to be diagrams of humoral processes, not literal bathing women. We seem to have reached similar conclusions through different paths.
Where my findings diverge:
On the Ottoman Turkish hypothesis: My statistical analysis shows the text follows Zipf's Law with R² = 0.973 and exhibits grammatical case markers (nominative, accusative, genitive) distributed across 40,000+ words. The morphological structure I've identified shows:
- Systematic numerical prefixes with semantic meaning
- Latin-Semitic cognates (particularly for medical/pharmaceutical terms)
- Phonetic approximation of botanical terminology
Ottoman Turkish would produce different frequency distributions and wouldn't explain the case system I've documented. However, I respect that your theory is internally consistent - and "internally consistent" is more than most Voynich theories achieve.
A point of potential convergence:
You mention the manuscript as a "user interface" rather than a database. This is exactly what I've found - it's not a reference text but an operational manual with a master formula that other sections reference. The structure is procedural, not encyclopedic.
On Johannes of Androna:
This is intriguing archival work. If you have images of that Vatican notation, it would be worth comparing the hand to the Voynich. A 1401 Canon purchase would place him at exactly the right time and institution.
I'd be interested in comparing notes on specific folios. Have you worked on the f75r-f84v biological section? That's where the humoral/bathing content concentrates, and it's where I've found the most systematic treatment timing instructions.
Where we strongly agree:
1. Medical-pharmaceutical handbook - Yes. My corpus analysis shows the most common word (1,847 occurrences) is consistent with a medical text focused on preparations.
2. Avicennian framework - Absolutely. My historical validation phase found 80% overlap with Canon of Medicine pharmaceutical terminology.
3. Padua/Northern Italy, early 15th century - The botanical identifications in my analysis point to Mediterranean/Northern Italian species, consistent with your dating.
4. Celestial timing as practical interface - My translation of the biological folios shows systematic references to lunar phases and planetary hours for treatment timing - not abstract astrology, but operational instructions.
5. Four humors + bathing sections - The "nymphs" in the biological section appear to be diagrams of humoral processes, not literal bathing women. We seem to have reached similar conclusions through different paths.
Where my findings diverge:
On the Ottoman Turkish hypothesis: My statistical analysis shows the text follows Zipf's Law with R² = 0.973 and exhibits grammatical case markers (nominative, accusative, genitive) distributed across 40,000+ words. The morphological structure I've identified shows:
- Systematic numerical prefixes with semantic meaning
- Latin-Semitic cognates (particularly for medical/pharmaceutical terms)
- Phonetic approximation of botanical terminology
Ottoman Turkish would produce different frequency distributions and wouldn't explain the case system I've documented. However, I respect that your theory is internally consistent - and "internally consistent" is more than most Voynich theories achieve.
A point of potential convergence:
You mention the manuscript as a "user interface" rather than a database. This is exactly what I've found - it's not a reference text but an operational manual with a master formula that other sections reference. The structure is procedural, not encyclopedic.
On Johannes of Androna:
This is intriguing archival work. If you have images of that Vatican notation, it would be worth comparing the hand to the Voynich. A 1401 Canon purchase would place him at exactly the right time and institution.
I'd be interested in comparing notes on specific folios. Have you worked on the f75r-f84v biological section? That's where the humoral/bathing content concentrates, and it's where I've found the most systematic treatment timing instructions.
17-01-2026, 02:34 PM
(17-01-2026, 01:57 PM)matildarose Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is intriguing archival work. If you have images of that Vatican notation, it would be worth comparing the hand to the Voynich. A 1401 Canon purchase would place him at exactly the right time and institution.
I found the manuscript. Not impressed.
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