The Voynich Ninja

I think  everyone who is referring to his own blog or web site should give the address in every post, and that holds true for all other references as well

Of course. What I mean is that if you just say "you can read this on my blog" and give the link, many people won't read it or react to it in the same way as they would when the information is also provided on the forum.

Okay, very positive stuff!

I try to keep my posting here as short as possible. Otherwise it becomes quickly difficult to read,
but also diffucult to follow all the replies and remember the previous posts on thath subject and who wrote what.

The main reason to put it in a Blog is of course that you have the info at your own disposal and can add or edit whenever you want it.
I see this forum more as an expert-pool or a tool for reflection, then as a way publish all my findings.

It is more for questions, discussions, relevant findings or significant replies to another man's thread's that i see added value.

Back to the subject, i think it is strange there are different angles on the "ladies with the rings". 
This is a very distinct detail with an almost exact match of two items in the VMS, found on 1 page in another vms from 1410.
I hoped other people would browse through the Harley and would make the remark that there are more "hits" than these two, because there are, and 
what are the odds?

If such a distinct detail as a ring provides so many angles, and we can not come to an understanding to what it represents,
i think it will be impossible to expect that we can find common ground on other pictures with much more different details and colours such as the herbal pages.

And if that is the general conclusion, it would be better to focus on that problem, because we could really make progress if there is a concensus.


The other matches are for example:

(16-05-2016, 06:08 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Okay, very positive stuff!

Since sarcasm is against the forum's rules, I interpret this literally.
I am glad you found our replies useful!

(16-05-2016, 06:08 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Back to the subject, i think it is strange there are different angles on the "ladies with the rings". 

I did not expect all these different meanings either!
I think it's great to find out how rich the symbolic possibilities of ancient images are! It's a never-ending learning path.

(16-05-2016, 06:08 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is a very distinct detail with an almost exact match of two items in the VMS, found on 1 page in another vms from 1410.
I hoped other people would browse through the Harley and would make the remark that there are more "hits" than these two, because there are, and 
what are the odds?

It's difficult to accurately evaluate the odds. If one looks carefully, the Voynich manuscript contains many hundreds of details and the are thousands of  illustrated medieval manuscript available online. Finding two details in a single manuscript is rare, but maybe not as much as one might think.
Personally, I find structure more interesting than details. For instance, structure clearly suggests that the Voynich zodiac is a zodiac (illustrating either a calendar or some astrological-astronomical concept).
The structure of the f85r2 diagram is also certainly meaningful.

(16-05-2016, 06:08 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If such a distinct detail as a ring provides so many angles, and we can not come to an understanding to what it represents,
i think it will be impossible to expect that we can find common ground on other pictures with much more different details and colours such as the herbal pages.

It depends on what you mean by "common ground". If you mean "universal agreement", I consider that both impossible and undesirable.

(16-05-2016, 06:08 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And if that is the general conclusion, it would be better to focus on that problem, because we could really make progress if there is a concensus.

Why so? Anyone can make all the progress in the world without any consensus.

Davidsch Wrote: Wrote:And if that is the general conclusion, it would be better to focus on that problem, because we could really make progress if there is a concensus.

Quote:MarcoP wrote:
Why so? Anyone can make all the progress in the world without any consensus.

Yes, anyONE.  
In my view a forum suggest we are willing to work together, that is at least my intention.

(16-05-2016, 06:08 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It is more for questions, discussions, relevant findings or significant replies to another man's thread's that i see added value.

Few years ago I thought that the chain from the Harley manuscript could be relevant. Here is the old post
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

"Wedding rings have been worn for hundreds of years, and the medieval period was no different. The plain wedding band can be traced back to the 11th century where it was worn on the third finger of the right hand. Only in the 16th century, was the ring changed to the left. Wedding rings from within the Jewish community tended to be far more flamboyant than those worn by the rest of the community. The ring at the left is from Colmar, France and is a Jewish marriage ring dated around 1300AD. Other rings might be plain or be inscribed with mottoes of love and fidelity both on the inside and outside." You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Strange
Since the picture on 85r2 shows the left hand with a ring:  - is it the right hand ? or - is the ms from 1600  or - is this an exception?

(21-05-2016, 01:43 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Strange
Since the picture on 85r2 shows the left hand with a ring:  - is it the right hand ? or - is the ms from 1600  or - is this an exception?

Hi David,
I am not sure the page you linked is accurate. See also what Macrobius wrote:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

The book of Astromagia (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) written for Alfonso X is discussed on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as a parallel for the Voynich zodiac section.

Davidsch has just mentioned the manuscript in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

Going through the manuscript, I noticed several images of rings, that appear to be planetary amulets. The fact that the first illustration (an invocation of Mercury in the sign of Libra) also includes a dead ram could also be linked with some ideas about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

Some fragments from the text in ms Reg.Lat.1283 a f32v:

Capitulo VII por fablar con[n] me[r]curio qua[n]do fue en libra.
Toma dos huevos de estrucio e sacalo que es de[n]tro et guarda los cascos
… tome cabro[n] de des dieres ... et faz en de sacrificio a onor de mercurio
... et di O tu mercurio planet respla[n]die[n]t er parecient de grandes mercede et de larga franqueza cumple la mi peticio[n] …
et venira su mandadero de mercurio et …. dema[n]dal el aniello de los encantamie[n]tos

"Chapter VII - To speak with Mercury when he is in Libra.
Take two ostrich eggs and empty them of their contents, keeping the shells.
... Take a ram of ten days and make of it a sacrifice in honor of Mercury.
...And say: -O you Mercury, shiny planet of great generosity and sincerity, hear my prayer-
...And a messenger from Mercury will come; ... ask him the ring of the incantations".

Great!  The ms is now being digitized ..? cause the link does not provide me with the ms at the Vatican..

What is interesting in this entire thread and the pictorial research is it seems we all have a mutual understanding:
that the images in with details have a symbolic value and meaning in the VMS.

So we assume that the pictures are not to be taken literal, like "a woman is showing a ring" but the drawing is symbolic.