Just to add my two cents worth. I agree that the bird referred to was originally ( probably) meant for an eagle. It doesn't have two heads, or any head.
______-
A three-headed deity was worshipped by the ancient Celts; a three-headed Christ appears for a while in Latin art, though only in the south.
In the period (4thC BC - Alexander's time) when I believe much of the matter in the manuscript was first given its form, coins from Cilicia also show a three headed deity. This is not to say it's what is represented in the folio Ellie mentions. I don't know; I haven't worked on that one.
(10-03-2016, 02:12 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I hope you all brought your tinfoil caps.
I found David's remark about Maria lactans interesting, so I did a little googling.
First of all, it seems clear that taboos were different in those days.
They were different. Sex and nudity were considered normal parts of life.
The concept of "sin" as illustrated by Adam and Eve's expulsion from the garden and donning of clothes gradually revamped society.
It also turned out that "sin" was a very profitable concept (I think this was more of a side effect than an original intention). The old sacred texts were in Aramaic, Greek, Hebrew and later Latin. If priests and other clergy were necessary to read and interpret the scriptures, to stand in as God's emissaries and intercede to have the person's sin "excused" (to allow entry into heaven), it encouraged tithes and donations and even the building of whole monasteries on the part of royalty. So the clergy profited from anything that could be deemed sinful, including nudity.
Economics was one of the reasons that the Protestant Reformation was so threatening to the Catholic church, why untold numbers of people died in religious wars between the two... if people could read the Bible in their own language could talk directly to God rather than having a Latin scholar/clergyman interpret it for them, then the financial support for the church would be undermined and the clergy would not be needed in the same numbers as before.
It wasn't just a difference in ideology between Pagan and Christian religions that encouraged the perception of sex and nudity as sinful, it had very strong economic benefits.
If I were to analyse this mnemonic the way I usually do, I would start by looking for Greek eagle myths. One stands out: Zeus becoming an eagle to abduct the handsome Ganymede.
I'd then look around for images of the eagle capturing Ganymede. The first thing I discover is that these two are a popular theme in gay porn. I add some extra keywords and keep looking. Here's a nice picture:
![[Image: Z32.2Ganymedes.jpg]](http://www.theoi.com/image/Z32.2Ganymedes.jpg)
Now I try to find out which typical attributes could be hidden in the mnemonic. For Ganymede, a possible attribute is his shepherd's staff, which looks like this:
![[Image: img_ganymedes.jpg]](http://www.theoi.com/image/img_ganymedes.jpg)
Now, can we find that shape somewhere in our plant? Why yes we can, it's the way the flower stalk is bent.
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
After that, Ganymede became Zeus' cup bearer, and he was often depicted pouring wine for him. In that case, the flowers could have been made to look like cups, and the leaves like pouring jugs.
I'm not analyzing the big plants though
(10-03-2016, 10:35 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Ellie,
thank you for the interesting images!
My impression is that most of them are not related with Mary.
Hi Marco, you may be right about the vision one. The BSB crowned lady is Mary for sure.
(11-03-2016, 02:56 AM)EllieV Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (10-03-2016, 10:35 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Ellie,
thank you for the interesting images!
My impression is that most of them are not related with Mary.
Hi Marco, you may be right about the vision one. The BSB crowned lady is Mary for sure.
Here is the other instance of the virgin/eagle in the BSB manuscript - the scene is the crowning of Mary as queen of heaven
[
attachment=163]
Thank you Ellie, You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view. is a great manuscript!
I see that this You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view. (Book of the Holy Trinity) is an allegorical work describing "the alchemical process in term of Christian mythology". Very interesting!
PS: I have found this image in an You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view. (Italy, 1500 ca - University of Vermont Library, Img.78) linked on the site of Stephen Bax.
The plant seems to be listed on You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view. as "9. Herba Canalaritas romana".
(11-03-2016, 09:24 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thank you Ellie, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a great manuscript!
I see that this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Book of the Holy Trinity) is an allegorical work describing "the alchemical process in term of Christian mythology". Very interesting!
PS: I have found this image in an You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Italy, 1500 ca - University of Vermont Library, Img.78) linked on the site of Stephen Bax.
The plant seems to be listed on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as "9. Herba Canalaritas romana".
Thanks Marco,
for anyone interested in the cycle of alchemical herbal illustrations, the only online copies I am aware of are at the Paris BN, namely MSS: Lat 17844, Lat 17848 and Hebr 1199.
Access works through this page:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
I haven't found any of them in "Gallica" (which has a much easier interface), so if anyone knows of one, it would be helpful.
Vermont MS 2 isn't really an alchemical herbal, but it includes illustrations copied from several herbals, including at least one alchemical herbal. I haven't been able to find the complete cycle of herbs in it (yet).
The Schoenberg herbal LJS 419, mentioned recently by "Davidsch" also includes a large part of the cycle of images, and I was surprised to see that the publication he mentioned did not refer to this. The cycle starts on folio 3 but seems to have other herbs mixed in.
The animal in the root of Canalaritas Romana normally looks more like a fish with teeth, or some mini dragon, and in this late copy has been changed quite a bit.
By chance the copy of this herb in MS Trento 1591 is also available online:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
(Not sure if this link will work everywhere).
Thank you very much for the correction, Rene!
And many thanks also for the manuscript references!
I borrowed Segre's book again and I see that BFN 17848 should be the best of the online resources (unluckily, the illustrations are not numbered in the manuscript, but the ordering is the usual one). I will refer to this manuscript in the future.
Apparently, 12 illustrations are missing from BFN 17844.
PS: the illustrations from the earliest dated "alchemical herbal" (Oxford, Bodleian Library, MS Can. Misc. 408, Milan, 1378) are also available online:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
Great, thanks Marco!
I had an old link but this did not work anymore.
I have seen different opinions on whether the Oxford MS or Aldini 211 is the older one.....
PS: that also brings back MS Canon Misc. 500 to which I referred in the waterlily thread:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
This looks later than the Voynich MS, but it has quite a number of interesting images for comparison.
(No eagle root but at least a fish).