31-08-2023, 07:45 AM
31-08-2023, 07:45 AM
08-09-2023, 07:04 AM
(31-08-2023, 07:45 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(29-08-2023, 10:26 AM)Jacinto Gimenez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Your feedback is always welcome.
You should really revise (critically) your understanding of the radiocarbon dating.
That is my well-meant feedback.
Hi ReneZ,
what is wrong with this thinking process?
The experts performed the C14 test on the "vellum". The vellum is not paper, it is the skin of a dead animal, properly tanned and smoothed. Dating tells us when the ram/sheep/cow from which the skin was taken was born, but it tells us nothing about when someone wrote on that skin.
Think: Years of the animal's life + Years the skin spent in the tanner's workshop until it was sold + Years the skin spent in the bookbinding workshops + Years the "virgin" manuscript spent in the friars' library storerooms + Years of travel from Europe to America + Years in the destiny depository .... Shall we continue? If we apply a little logic, that adds up to many years, I would say about 90 years more.08-09-2023, 08:50 AM
What's wrong with that?
The age of the animal does not matter. Isotope decay begins when the animal dies. This applies to all living creatures.
Plants absorb natural radioactive substances from the soil.
Plant is eaten. Animal absorbs radioactive substance. Isotopes decay. New ones are added.
Animal or plant dies, no new radioactive isotopes are added. Now the clock is running. The decay rate (amount of isotopes) can be used to determine the age of the carbon.
What's strange is someone goes on holiday to America but shows photos from home. Why do I not see a single detail (pyramids, scriptural symbols, clothing, hairstyle, etc.) from America?
Before you can explain that, the subject of America is off the table.
The age of the animal does not matter. Isotope decay begins when the animal dies. This applies to all living creatures.
Plants absorb natural radioactive substances from the soil.
Plant is eaten. Animal absorbs radioactive substance. Isotopes decay. New ones are added.
Animal or plant dies, no new radioactive isotopes are added. Now the clock is running. The decay rate (amount of isotopes) can be used to determine the age of the carbon.
What's strange is someone goes on holiday to America but shows photos from home. Why do I not see a single detail (pyramids, scriptural symbols, clothing, hairstyle, etc.) from America?
Before you can explain that, the subject of America is off the table.
08-09-2023, 09:52 AM
(08-09-2023, 07:04 AM)Jacinto Gimenez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi ReneZ,
what is wrong with this thinking process?
The experts performed the C14 test on the "vellum". The vellum is not paper, it is the skin of a dead animal, properly tanned and smoothed. Dating tells us when the ram/sheep/cow from which the skin was taken was born, but it tells us nothing about when someone wrote on that skin.Think: Years of the animal's life + Years the skin spent in the tanner's workshop until it was sold + Years the skin spent in the bookbinding workshops + Years the "virgin" manuscript spent in the friars' library storerooms + Years of travel from Europe to America + Years in the destiny depository .... Shall we continue? If we apply a little logic, that adds up to many years, I would say about 90 years more.
I am afraid that almost everythng is wrong.
- It's the date the animal died, not when it was born
- Parchment is not tanned. That is leather. Neither of the two processes take years.
- The text is written on the parchment sheets. Binding and everything else happens after
- Parchment sheets were not stored for any amount of time. They were used soon after production.
08-09-2023, 11:10 AM
13-09-2023, 10:59 AM
(08-09-2023, 11:10 AM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(29-08-2023, 03:26 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This while research shows time and time again that all relevant aspects of the manuscripts can be dated to the first half of the 15th century.
To name a few: clothing style and paleography.
And Meso-American plants ?
And translated text according to pictures of each page ?
13-09-2023, 01:02 PM
(13-09-2023, 10:59 AM)Jacinto Gimenez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.And Meso-American plants ?
I know that some botanists have claimed the same thing. There is a thread on the forum about the specific plants: none are exclusively American, most are impossible to identify reliably when they are not partly imaginary (impossible leaves, roots).
Confirmation bias is not something that only happens to other people. The Voynich Ms is huge trap for confirmation bias: I don't know how many would-be solvers have managed to convince themselves that they have identified the language(s), there is a new one every few months that we hear about, probably there are a lot more that don't go public.
13-09-2023, 06:53 PM
Do Tucker/Yanick and you come up with he same list of meso-American plants, or are they different.
If they are different, then that is a huge problem.
If they are different, then that is a huge problem.
14-09-2023, 07:39 AM
(13-09-2023, 06:53 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do Tucker/Yanick and you come up with he same list of meso-American plants, or are they different.
If they are different, then that is a huge problem.
The cypher table used in 2018 by tucker & janick is diferent to mine, they found "some" words that can match with plants, but very frequent is something like glossolalia of the baby-speech "lalala balala malalaba"- type. This's is not my case, with my cypher table I decypher the first 10 pages completely and in a coherent way.
14-09-2023, 09:34 AM
The statements of Tucker and Janick are not a yardstick.
They are based on ideas and not on knowledge.
All plants are of European origin and have a medicinal background. Most of them even grow on my doorstep.
The idea that they might be fantasy plants is nonsense and based on plant drawings from other books. This is because many books are copies of copies. So the text is still true, but in drawings a daisy becomes a Madagascar palm.
For example, The Book of Natures. 300 years in use. Preserved 170 fragments by 100 different authors.
A sentence like "If it could be identified as a sunflower, one would also have to consider America, and the age would have to be looked for after 1500".
The professor never said it was a sunflower, but the nonsense persists to this day.
For you it may come from America, but the experts will no longer consider it. And not only because of the C-14 test, that's just the end point.
They are based on ideas and not on knowledge.
All plants are of European origin and have a medicinal background. Most of them even grow on my doorstep.
The idea that they might be fantasy plants is nonsense and based on plant drawings from other books. This is because many books are copies of copies. So the text is still true, but in drawings a daisy becomes a Madagascar palm.
For example, The Book of Natures. 300 years in use. Preserved 170 fragments by 100 different authors.
A sentence like "If it could be identified as a sunflower, one would also have to consider America, and the age would have to be looked for after 1500".
The professor never said it was a sunflower, but the nonsense persists to this day.
For you it may come from America, but the experts will no longer consider it. And not only because of the C-14 test, that's just the end point.