The Voynich Ninja

If it were in Valais, the dialect would be "Höchstalemannisch". Old High Alemannic, (Southern German), where it has lasted for a long time in the valley.

The most obvious word is valden and vbren.
vbren from verbrennen, correctly spelled v'bren. Burning

(26-04-2023, 03:35 AM)Gregor Bernhart-Koenigstein Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In Austria we are very strongly influenced in our mystical thinking by the anthroposophist Rudolf Steiner.

He emphasizes that there is also a "mind's eye" as a source of knowledge.

When I studied Biology, I didn't pay much attention to parapsychology, but it was considered serious research in the 1970s: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

"In 1972, physicists Harold E. Puthoff and Russell Targ undertook a series of investigations of psychic phenomena sponsored by the CIA, for which they coined the term remote viewing.[58][59][60][unreliable source?] Among other activities, the project encompassed the work of consulting "consciousness researchers" including artist/writer Ingo Swann, military intelligence officer Joseph McMoneagle, and psychic/illusionist Uri Geller.[61] This ESP work continued with funding from the US intelligence community until Puthoff and Targ left SRI in the mid-1980s."

Freeman Dyson wrote, "ESP is real... but cannot be tested with the clumsy tools of science."

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. was never proven, but it attempted to develop a system process for tracing some "thing" (it doesn't have to be external- but could refer to working knowledge and memory/history). Everyone has a process-this might just be a fancy way of formalizing certain aspects of thought process, which is deeply embedded in millions of synapses, and as varied as humanity itself.

I think the fact that most acknowledge that everyone has some natural bias is the first step to overcoming that bias. 

The mind's eye (or third eye) seems to refer to the abstract mechanism that the mind uses to  navigate itself compare different subjects. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. In this sense, it is comparative literature, even with unidentified glyphs. With unknown dialects, if one existed during that era that matches some of the words used, then it might be easier to conclude; 

"Child (1976), a linguist of Indo-European languages for the U.S. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., proposed that the manuscript was written in a "hitherto unknown North Germanic dialect".You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. He identified in the manuscript a "skeletal syntax several elements of which are reminiscent of certain Germanic languages", while the content is expressed using "a great deal of obscurity"

If it could be proven that it was a previously unknown German dialect, then the lack of confirmation effectively makes the manuscript a Rorschach test: 

"a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in which subjects' perceptions of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. are recorded and then analyzed using You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. interpretation, complex You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., or both. Some psychologists use this test to examine a person's personality characteristics and emotional functioning. It has been employed to detect underlying You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., especially in cases where patients are reluctant to describe their thinking processes openly.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. The test is named after its creator, Swiss psychologist You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The Rorschach can be thought of as a psychometric examination of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the active pattern of perceiving objects, shapes, or scenery as meaningful things to the observer's experience, the most common being faces or other pattern of forms that are not present at the time of the observation.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. In the 1960s, the Rorschach was the most widely used You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.."

Like remote viewing, the Rorschach test has more than one purpose- it's not just for external, but internal comparison. The sample size for an internal comparison of languages to a Isma'ili writer, may only be the ancient family of Landa Khojki languages: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. or the Pahlavi language to an Iranian reader. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rorschach_test#cite_note-chapman-6][/url]

But since Western scripts seem to have evolved from early Sanskrit; it doesn't mean it was Sanskrit, just more closely resembling it than being a more distant successor.
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"As an example, Indo-Iranian writing styles are more similar to medieval Latin than east-Asian character-based scripts like Chinese—both come from proto-Indo-European roots."

In that sense, the mind's eye is the internal counterpart to remote viewing, and describing the VM is like the Rorschach test- a test for all the scripts that one is exposed to and sub/unconsciously has a preference to: 

"Dozens of languages have been mentioned in connection with the VMS, but claiming it’s a specific language is easy. I saw one person claim five different languages in the same week, and another claimed three more in the course of three months. Proving that it’s a specific language is the real challenge, and so far no one has provided a convincing translation of even one paragraph"

If I wanted to describe the shapes of moving clouds- I could probably find several different objects that it resembles. Proving what a cloud that is, by definition, shapeless, is impossible. But if it were actually shaped into something- that is- an actual extinct dialect or shorthand language that has a translation reference through some Rosetta Stone-like vellum, then it would make sense that it appears to be related to many languages, because it resembles early Indo-Iranian, which resembles Medieval Latin, with an added dialect, and several idiosyncrasies that might have only existed in that era. In that sense, it is an accidental Rorschach, because it resembles something shapeless by virtue of having so many faces- resembling a universal ancestor language. 

MarcoP wrote:
"the first two Latin alphabet words of the fourth line are read:

Vogt: '[r,u,v]alscn [u,v,r]brey'

Palmer: 'valoc* vhren'

Stolfi: 'valden ubrey' "

Albus: 'palsen pbrey'

As I am leaning on the German scripts based on the images suggesting habsburg coat of arms (maybe excluding the Bruggs/primus resemblance), I think Stolfi's appears closest to a vague dialect of Walden, which in German means "strong" or "powerful." Walder also means forests: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Walden means valley: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Wald means forests: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

According to Voynich Portal, there was no "u" nor "w" character. I'm not sure if they were alternating between Latin and German, or using an obscure dialect for certain words, but it's not impossible that if a location mentioned in the script were considered more valuable, it would make sense to use the obscure version for sensitive information. That is, to hide where the script was written or stored, if it doesn't conform to the rest of Latin. Though someone may know more about the other words in these sections.

(26-04-2023, 06:33 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If it were in Valais, the dialect would be "Höchstalemannisch". Old High Alemannic, (Southern German), where it has lasted for a long time in the valley.

The most obvious word is valden and vbren.
vbren from verbrennen, correctly spelled v'bren. Burning

Thank you- then "burning forests/wood" perhaps?

[attachment=7304]
I don't think it is forest or wood.
I rather assume a variant as it can be seen in the text in the picture. Dialect Basel.
"valsen", in German "falls ein" case in point.
Now there is also the variant
"valden/valsden" "fall den/fall's den" in the case den

What else is nice to see in the last word "syn" "sein" to be,
the y and n

I found another meaning for valden and vbren?  Could VALDEN  stand for Valdensians, spelled also as Valdesi, Valdois? In 1211, 80 Waldensians were burned at the stake in Strasbourg.  In 1487, Pope Innocent VIII issued a a papal bull promissing indulgence for the crusaders against the Waldensians.
 The  v in the word vbren looks more like o.  OBREN could well be the Slavic word for Hungarians. Originally, Slavs called Avars OBRI, and kept the name for Hungarians as well, although later the name was changed to OGRI. The suffix -en might be German, which could be expected from the Swabian author.

If I were to read it as "obren", there would be two possibilities.
"obren" German the "das obere" upper
or "obren" from the Bavarian of "anbrennen" Alemannic "abren". Burning on.
I don't necessarily see the first letter as "o".

(27-04-2023, 07:06 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If I were to read it as "obren", there would be two possibilities.
"obren" German the "das obere" upper
or "obren" from the Bavarian of "anbrennen" Alemannic "abren". Burning on.
I don't necessarily see the first letter as "o".

Obren means the upper, that is why Avars and later Hungarians were called by Slavs OBREN, because both were their overlords.

I haven't spoken in this forum for a long time because the discussion has acquired an ignorant undertone and obviously my previous publication on the Voynich Silenen Comedy has not been read carefully. Nevertheless, I would like to answer the criticism, insofar as it is constructive.


To the discussion about Brugg:

Based on the heraldic evidence, there is no doubt about the reading "Brug" for the Habsburg city of Brugg. The polemical "pruck" does not exist. Without the path of heraldry, which has been termed "medieval gossip" here, there is no solution to the manuscript. A rethink needs to take place here. The similar-looking Latin reading "primus" is precisely the deception and camouflage for the place name, which is not quite obvious and simple. Herein lies a pointed pitfall.

On the discussion of “Wallisische Abtey”:

It was criticized that there was no initial letter "a" to be seen here. In fact, it has been correctly argued that all the "a"s on the last page are different. And yet the word abbey is written here! Because it is about the initial letter "A", which is open at the top and which can be found in contemporary writings, and which usually differs from other "a" in the word as a capital letter. Also, as in contemporary writing, the “t” is written in very small letters and should not be read as an “r”.
There is also evidence in later chronicles that the monastery of Saint Maurice in Valais was only referred to as the "Wallisische Abtey" because of its importance.

As already explained in detail in the Voynich Silenen Comedy on the Battle of Sempach, it is not only the Melker Russ, who is quoted by name, the Bern Chronicle, the Austrian Chronicle, or the Chronicle of Spiez, that the pictorial quotations in the heraldic flowers refer to, but about in the case of Basel, the Chronicle of Tschachtlan and the Battle of the Birs. The only correct perspective is the patriotic Helvetian, federal view of the Swiss wars of liberation, as well as the diplomatic efforts of Bishop Jost von Silenen towards Milan, Savoy and Austria. For heraldic reasons, there is no doubt that it is located in the Valais Abbey on the last page.

Hello Gregor,

It it possible to find somewhere your alphabet (how you assign Voynich symbols to real letters) and actual reading of some paragraphs?

(18-06-2023, 10:27 PM)Gregor Bernhart-Koenigstein Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To the discussion about Brugg:

Based on the heraldic evidence, there is no doubt about the reading "Brug" for the Habsburg city of Brugg. The polemical "pruck" does not exist. Without the path of heraldry, which has been termed "medieval gossip" here, there is no solution to the manuscript. A rethink needs to take place here. The similar-looking Latin reading "primus" is precisely the deception and camouflage for the place name, which is not quite obvious and simple. Herein lies a pointed pitfall.

I am sorry to be quite frank here, but this is one aspect that causes that I cannot take your proposal seriously.
The reading Primus is consistent with other quire marks in the MS and with quire marks in other manuscripts.
Saying that this is deception and camouflage is speculation that is based on nothing.

There may be no doubt in your mind, but there is extreme doubt in the minds of a large number of people.
If one takes one's research seriously (and this goes for everyone!) there has to be an element of doubt about basically all conclusions.