I am keen to date the attached cipher. In the inventory it is described as "Lettera cifrata dell'oratore di Milano."
The folder it was in contains only 15th century and very early 16th century documents, so it is unlikely to be from outside that time period, though anything is possible.
It is possible that it is mislabelled and miscategorised, although I would not assume so without strong reasons.
It doesn't look like any of the late 15th century Milanese ciphers that I have seen. It doesn't look like any of the early 15th century Milanese ciphers, however early 15th century Milanese ciphers seem to be much more diverse in design than the late 15th century ones. I have not seem many 16th Milanese ciphers, so it is hard for me to say if it belongs to that era.
Has anyone seen anything similar? What makes it stand out to me is the presence of the symbols written over some of the characters.
Isn't this very similar to Greek minuscule? I only know Greek minuscule by the general apearence of it and can't actually read it, but if you hadn't told me this was a cipher I'd be convinced it was plain Greek.
(11-08-2022, 04:32 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Isn't this very similar to Greek minuscule? I only know Greek minuscule by the general apearence of it and can't actually read it, but if you hadn't told me this was a cipher I'd be convinced it was plain Greek.
Well, I am open to the idea that it was incorrectly classified. However if it is Greek minuscule then what are the symbols ontop of the characters? Is that normal in Greek minuscule?
Is there anyone would knows Greek minuscule well?
At the bottom of the smaller page there is some writing in Latin script. Does that make sense in the contact of Greek minuscule?
(11-08-2022, 04:32 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Isn't this very similar to Greek minuscule? I only know Greek minuscule by the general apearence of it and can't actually read it, but if you hadn't told me this was a cipher I'd be convinced it was plain Greek.
I can see what you mean about it looking like Greek minuscule. If it is Greek minuscule then it should be relatively to read and verify as such. Assuming Greek minuscule is fairly standardised. Archives sometimes get things wrong, so it is possible they got this one wrong.
It could be that the symbols represent abbreviations in Greek minuscule, though I haven't yet seen the same symbols in a Greek minuscule script.
To underline looks like a name.
"di fama...." or similar. And maybe a title at the front.
The name could be used to determine the age.
The text in Latin script looks something vaguely like:
"gi.lamabrano.dmilong"
As is so often the case this is very hard to read. I did wonder if "milong" was read as Milan and that is why it said to be Milanese. Maybe I should ask the archive if they have an envelope for this letter to clarify its origin.
Of course, it could be a cipher loosely influenced by the symbols of Greek minuscule. It is not unusual for ciphers to take their symbols from other character sets.
Of course, again there is the question as to why you would write text in Greek minuscule and sign it in Latin script. With enciphered letters it is normal to have the letter written in a cipher script and then signed in the Latin script.
Nevertheless there are an unusually large number of Greek symbols for a ciphertext.
Looks to me like 'de forma', there is an epistula by Gregor of Nyssa, to give headins in Latin is common
(11-08-2022, 06:19 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The text in Latin script looks something vaguely like:
"gi.lamabrano.dmilong"
Maybe "lett(re?) de samabano danelong".
"de" looks French or Spanish.