Hi, there,
I have examined the manuscript you mentioned and a few of other Czech manuscripts from the mid-15th century and came to conclusion that the language is neither Czech, nor Croatian, but Slovenian. Since all three languages originate from the Old Church Slavonic, they have many common words and grammatical features, but there is clear difference. By then, Czech was well developed written language with well established grammar and German writing convention. Croatians used Glagolitza in Croatian language, which was still similar, but the division is also clearly noticable. The Glagolitic script had a separate letter for each sound, including for long and short vowels and semi-vowels. When the words were written in Latin, the semi-vowels, not having equivalent letters in Latin, were dropped, but in 16th century Slovenian writing, the missing semi-vowels and unstressed vowels were replaced with full vowel. Also, the letter y was changed to i or j, the w into v, u or l, the q was replaced with kv. It took some time before those letters completely disappeared from Slovenian writing. Also, the short words, such as prepositions, conjunctions, which were previously written together with the next word, were separated with a apostrophe. No diacritic markers were used, which resulted in many similar words, pronounced differently.
Initial thoughts on Middle Welsh (1500-1570) as a possible source language for the Voynich manuscript. You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
(14-06-2023, 10:11 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.<>came to conclusion that the language is neither Czech, nor Croatian, but Slovenian.<>
Many thanks. Can you recommend a manuscript in Slovenian of the period 1400-1450 that is available as electronic full text, with the original spelling preserved?
Further thoughts on the v112 transliteration of the Voynich manuscript, and applications to medieval Latin, Italian and Galician-Portuguese.
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
(15-06-2023, 02:58 PM)dfs346 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Further thoughts on the v112 transliteration of the Voynich manuscript, and applications to medieval Latin, Italian and Galician-Portuguese.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Hello Mr. Edwards,
Quote:word parsing according to Massimiliano Zattera’s “slot alphabet”
The first word of You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view. could be parsed as:
pShe oky
or
pSheo ky
Quote:The potential is perhaps enough to justify continuing the experiments with alternative transliterations and with glyph and letter frequencies.
It is useless to try and match frequencies before matching entropy. Without reducing the entropy of the plaintext first (especially conditional character entropy) a one-to-one mapping (that preserves entropy) is guaranteed to fail. Having the frequent patterns
ch iin etc. as single letters of the v112 alphabet is not enough.
Old news, but still worth pointing out when so many researchers keep trying the same experiment that is doomed to fail.
I see that you are considering You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view., that would be one way to lower conditional entropy without changing letter frequencies. Not sure how the transformation could be applied to any word (the Zattera sequence does not allow any number of a given glyph), and why would anyone want to do that, when a reversible anagramming method would be more useful: not ambiguous and easier to apply consistently?
I guess that, when considering anagrams, the idea is that each Voynich word-token corresponds to a plain-text word token? Since word lengths are more or less comparable, this scenario does not seem to allow for nulls. In addition to character frequencies, one could check character co-occurrence in the same word. E.g. if o corresponds to ‘a’, q must be a character that basically can only occur in words that include ‘a’. This can be extended to qok and similar checks can be made for the characters decoding edy, aiin etc.
Imagining a two-stage process of transcription from documents in natural languages to the Voynich manuscript.
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
(15-06-2023, 05:41 AM)dfs346 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Initial thoughts on Middle Welsh (1500-1570) as a possible source language for the Voynich manuscript. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(14-06-2023, 10:11 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.<>came to conclusion that the language is neither Czech, nor Croatian, but Slovenian.<>
Many thanks. Can you recommend a manuscript in Slovenian of the period 1400-1450 that is available as electronic full text, with the original spelling preserved?
There is only three pages of Slovenian text which was found in the manuscript Tractatum hussite, which is interesting, because it has minims with all kind of upward flourishes, like the VM.
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
Stična codex in sloveniand can be found on
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.>
There are a lot of other manuscripts in different languages for anyone who wants to analize scripts
(16-06-2023, 04:51 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Stična codex in sloveniand can be found on
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.>
Thanks, but this link doesn't work.
Another look at how the Voynich manuscript could be compatible with natural languages containing doubled letters:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
Thoughts on Prescott Currier's dilemma; and why the "words" in the Voynich manuscript are not words.
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.