(03-06-2021, 05:18 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (02-06-2021, 11:22 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.what is the name referring to the curl that is used on the CH to become SH?
No idea. The closest i could find is:
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Your
hook-above symbol sounds acceptable to me and using that name,
is the most non-confusing one in my humble opinion.
Perhaps we could make specify it even further and make it:
hook-above-facing-left symbol, (abbrev. hafal) symbol.
"hüser" is still like that today.
s hus, das Haus ( the house ) d hüser, die Häuser (the houses)
"tüfel" Teufel devil
"s waer", es wäre it would be
köfest, kaufst es, buy it North German would be possible because spoken the same way.
Ik hav et geköft. (plattdeutsch)
The answer depends entirely upon its function.
If it is a vocal indicator, then it would be a circumflex. These types of descriptions bring with them associations of vocal pronunciation.
If we assume it is an abbreviation symbol, then I don't think it has a name, but I would describe it as a macron abbreviation mark.
(06-06-2021, 12:43 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The answer depends entirely upon its function.
If it is a vocal indicator, then it would be a circumflex. These types of descriptions bring with them associations of vocal pronunciation.
If we assume it is an abbreviation symbol, then I don't think it has a name, but I would describe it as a macron abbreviation mark.
Of course do as you like, but for me "a macron abbreviation mark" is not exact enough.
If this was a replacement part for my car, I would like to know which part exactly we are talking about and
for me the
hook-above-facing-left symbol, (abbrev. hafal) on the Eva-SH, in the Voynich works.
(06-06-2021, 06:49 PM)Davidsch Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (06-06-2021, 12:43 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The answer depends entirely upon its function.
If it is a vocal indicator, then it would be a circumflex. These types of descriptions bring with them associations of vocal pronunciation.
If we assume it is an abbreviation symbol, then I don't think it has a name, but I would describe it as a macron abbreviation mark.
Of course do as you like, but for me "a macron abbreviation mark" is not exact enough.
If this was a replacement part for my car, I would like to know which part exactly we are talking about and
for me the hook-above-facing-left symbol, (abbrev. hafal) on the Eva-SH, in the Voynich works.
It's sometimes left, sometimes right, sometimes down (symmetrical). I call it a cap since I'm not sure what it is yet:
![[Image: CapSymbolVMS.png]](https://voynichportal.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/CapSymbolVMS.png)
(07-06-2021, 03:22 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's sometimes left, sometimes right, sometimes down (symmetrical). I call it a cap since I'm not sure what it is yet:
Which is why abstract is the way to go.
If you call it the same thing all the time, you're forcing an interpretation onto it. For all we know, we could be grouping several distinct marks into one.
For example, is an acute accent, an apostrophe and a grave accent the same thing? They look much the same ( ´ ' ` ) but have different functions. It's reasonable to assume the middle mark is related to the other two, but it has a completely different function.
Or, a more extreme example: ( ¨ ) depending where it is, is it an umlaut or a dieresis? Exactly the same mark in the same language but different meanings depending on the associated letter.
Another thing that's noteworthy about this symbol is that it is sometimes more left or right in the horizontal direction and it sometimes cuts quite deeply through the shape below it (not very obvious in the examples I posted, but if there were more, it becomes evident).
JKP, looking at the way different scribes mark it, do you think this is deliberate or is it just the variation in handwriting style between scribes?
(08-06-2021, 04:24 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.JKP, looking at the way different scribes mark it, do you think this is deliberate or is it just the variation in handwriting style between scribes?
It varies more than is normal for most manuscripts and even more than is normal for individual scribes. I can say this with a reasonable degree of confidence. Also, cutting vertically through a shape or ligature is not common (it's fairly common in the horizontal direction, there are long macrons that sometimes cut through ascenders, but cutting through in the up-down direction is not common).
I often wonder if the different directions or shapes have meaning, but if they do, I haven't been able to discern what it is.
(10-06-2021, 10:23 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I often wonder if the different directions or shapes have meaning, but if they do, I haven't been able to discern what it is.
When there are so many variants (or a continuum) it is reasonable to posit that there is no difference in meaning between them. Therefore V101 (or any attempt to categorize hundreds of shapes) is the worst transliteration for statistical study.