It's just philosphy.
But maybe it's there and we just don't see it.
He could also write acua.
You're right, there are many languages where it occurs. But he probably only uses one.
(09-02-2021, 11:02 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There are many languages in which "q" occurs in numerous places in the word: "aqua" "cinque" "quinque" "pourquois" "bisque" (and others do not have "q").
In Spanish (or Portuguese):
aGua; cinKo, Quinze, porQue...
Neither modern Spanish, Portuguese nor French pronounce the qU sound
They use the direct Latin version of q/K... latin: nunquam; Old Spanish: nunqua; modern Spanish / Portuguese: nunca / nunca
In these languages, the qu version is almost always developed as a hard "K" or "Ca" sound.
NunCa; Ke; Kien; Cuando..... in general, it's ca, co, cu, ke, ki
But in
medieval languages, q almost always takes after the Latin form, with little difference.
(09-02-2021, 11:38 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So how can you defend that 15th century "German" (whatever that means) is equivalent in any way to the modern day language used in Germany?
The evolution into modern High German was quite recent and Mid High German is still used for its poetic effect, or so I am told. So Aga's philosophising seems quite plausible to me. Of course, I am only an amateur and defer to experts in all this.
(09-02-2021, 11:39 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.It's just philosphy.
But maybe it's there and we just don't see it.
He could also write acua.
You're right, there are many languages where it occurs. But he probably only uses one.
Yes, there are a few incidences where 4 or 4o is not first, but you have to look at the big picture. It doesn't happen very often, and this positional property doesn't just apply to the 4 glyph, it applies to many of them. Natural languages are not constructed that way.
(10-02-2021, 01:34 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Natural languages are not constructed that way
At least the ones that do are a great minority.
I prefer to see "qo" as a unit that is in some way equivalent to "o" (i.e. word-initial o).
Then, there are many possibilities. It could be a modified version of this word-initial o or it could be something else that is not too closely related.
The very few cases where q is not at the start of a word, or that it is not followed by o can also be explained in several different ways.
All these open options depend on whether the text is rather based on a written original or a spoken original.
Just to give an example: if word-initial o is any vowel, then the preceding q could be a glottal stop or an aspiration (spoken original).
I'm not aware of any natural languages that are constructed that way. Even syllabic languages have more leeway to use syllables in various positions in a word. If you are aware of languages that are strongly positional, feel free to post.
If I now add a rare combination, "q9", the result would be the same as the previous "quum".
Now I would even have a hidden double consonant.
According to the dictionary, "quum" is the old version of "cum". This change from Old Latin to New Latin took place between the 14th and 15th centuries.
Is it possible that an older person was still using the old system while the younger one had already learned the new version?
(10-02-2021, 09:33 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Even syllabic languages have more leeway to use syllables in various positions in a word
Syllabic languages can be strictly mono-syllabic (like Mandarin Chinese) or mostly mono-syllabic (like Thai).
Words (concepts) can still consists of more than one syllable.
In Chinese, "tomorrow" is two syllables that can be transliterated as Ming Tian. The two syllables have their own meaning, the second meaning (a.o.) "day".
In Thai "to understand" is two syllables that can be transliterated as Kao Jai. These two syllables are also words that mean: "Enter" and "heart".
In both cases, there are characters (Thai) or sounds (Chinese) that can only appear at the start of at the end of syllables.
It is rather unlikely that this is relevant for the Voynich MS text, but these positional rules do exist.
(10-02-2021, 06:42 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
All these open options depend on whether the text is rather based on a written original or a spoken original.
Just to give an example: if word-initial o is any vowel, then the preceding q could be a glottal stop or an aspiration (spoken original).
Indeed. Or any sound inserted between vowels to prevent hiatus. Or any sound which is not preserved in speech except when between two vowels.
[q] is interesting, and contested, but there are several potential models which render it unproblematic for a linguistic solution.