The Voynich Ninja

(05-02-2021, 08:28 PM)LisaFaginDavis Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Sure, but he didn't sell it, as you know!

For sure everything was above-board, but in 2000 Gabriel Landini received a forwarded message from Rollett jr. in which this lady-friend of Anne was complaining, and she seemed to be of a different opinion.

ELV left the MS to Anne as a form of pension. I am not sure if Anne was already ailing when she sold the MS to Kraus, but she died only a few months later.

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On this ruler, all of a sudden it appeared in the middle of my message and I have the feeling it was some special key sequence (that I can't reproduce).

I thought the documentary was anodyne and disappointing, with any trace of character or verve ruthlessly edited out.

Yet the Voynich is extraordinary, romantic, frustrating, contradictory, mad(dening) and yet hyperrational. It's a siren, and everyone thinks they're smart enough to tie themselves to the mast, but they get lured to their fate regardless.

You wouldn't think so from that film, sorry.

(05-02-2021, 09:42 PM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I thought the documentary was anodyne and disappointing, with any trace of character or verve ruthlessly edited out.

To me it was just another Voynich documentary.

The National Geographic documentary is a bit disappointing as it explores lots of different theories only to introduce the carbon dating at the end of the programme and thereby shows that all the previous theories discussed could not be correct.

My favourite is the BBC Four documentary though it predates the carbon dating results.

I suppose one thing about this documentary is that it introduced me to the names of some people who I hadn't heard of in connection with the Voynich. It was also beautifully filmed, but other than that I am not sure if there is much more to be said. Though to be fair making any long documentary about the Voynich seems to me to be fraught with difficulty unless one starts to explore different theories it seems hard to say much for which there is a broad consensus.

Damn it, now I'm going to have to watch it.

Isn't that a bit unfair, Nick? We aren't exactly the target demographic...

I am of a diametrically opposite opinion from Nick's.

I think that it is about seven years now, that people with extraordinary, romantic, frustrating (etc) views about the MS have dominated the media with unsupportable hypotheses in papers, powerpoints and youtube videos. On average one about every three months.
It seems to have slowed down a bit? Maybe I am just imagining that.

I really appreciate seeing it being treated as a regular historical artifact, that is admittedly unsual, or even very unusual.

Mark wrote:

Quote:it introduced me to the names of some people who I hadn't heard of in connection with the Voynich

I appreciate that that is a personal statement, but all of them have been strongly connected with 21st century Voynich MS publicity.

(06-02-2021, 07:59 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Mark wrote:

Quote:it introduced me to the names of some people who I hadn't heard of in connection with the Voynich

I appreciate that that is a personal statement, but all of them have been strongly connected with 21st century Voynich MS publicity.

I had not heard the names Professor Bill Sherman and Professor Claire Bowern in connection with the Voynich. I understand that others were aware of these people, but I was not.

Lisa, Richard, René: Thank you for the thoughts and information on Anne Nill, her death and will and so on.

I looked at the link to the Will, and now do remember reading it "back then", and all the papers at Mr. Mackinnon's site. I have them on my laptop, in fact.

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... and so I remember I did look into Mrs. Seilheimer, and traced out her family, and looked in the Buffalo area for Seilheimer's and Nill's, and all that. In fact, Anne Nill's childhood home is still standing, and can be found on Google Street view:

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But like so many things of general interest, they probably are no helpful to the VMs investigation, and take much time and effort. So except for anyone writing a bio of Ms. Nill, further work in those areas would not be fruitful. But I'll attach an image from the 1910 census which I found back then, from Family Search (I forgot I had THAT, too!).



Rich.

(05-02-2021, 09:42 PM)nickpelling Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I thought the documentary was anodyne and disappointing, with any trace of character or verve ruthlessly edited out.

Yet the Voynich is extraordinary, romantic, frustrating, contradictory, mad(dening) and yet hyperrational. It's a siren, and everyone thinks they're smart enough to tie themselves to the mast, but they get lured to their fate regardless.

You wouldn't think so from that film, sorry.

Well I have to disagree with you. I think to a large percentage of viewers, who are unfamiliar with the Voynich, it probably was very colorful. The purpose of this one was to lay out the baseline understandings of the Voynich, and the questions which it raises. And I think that those alone are of great interest to the general public.

Maybe to you and I, not so much, as we are so familiar with all that. But the "character" of the Voynich came through, I thought, in this show, very well. If they had begun to launch into all the competing, alternate theories, it would have been a different sort of thing, and probably confusing to the average viewer. In fact one of the questions asked of me was about the number of theories... and I listed them at length, but they left that out. I think most viewers heads would have spun.

On the contrary, I think Bill gave a good overview of the types of approaches to the problems... although as he actually did after he blurted it out, I cringe at the phrase "Conspiracy theorists". It should be possible to discuss alternatives both within and without the paradigm, without labeling them with that distasteful moniker.

By the way, I was told, from several sources, that one or more of those asked to participate in this were vehement about what and who should be, and should not be, included in this show, or they would NOT participate. They didn't. This has actually happened on more than one occasion, in the past. In one instance a few years ago, a participant in a documentary managed to convince the producers that NO one else but themselves should be in the show... and they succeeded! I actually had to cancel my trip to Europe for that shoot, at the last minute, as did another friend of mine who had been scheduled. I think others had been jettisoned, and it became a one man show. Whether or not the results were "colorful", I can't say.

Rich.

I can say that I have not been asked for this documentary.

Anyone who has been involved in Voynich MS discussions more than superficially, for at least five years or so, will be aware that there is a certain amount of tension among some people, and some (misplaced) partisanship. There's quite a bit of finger-pointing and ad hominem.

While such things may be expected in important issues like global warming and the appropriate handling of the Corona virus, and just about any major political issue in any country, for a completely innocent topic like one not-too-important historical manuscript this makes no sense.

That Nick did not find this too interesting is his opinion, and that is fine. I understand what he means. I have a different opinion, but in the end I am sure that there are more points on which I agree with Nick than on which I disagree. 

I really appreciate that the contributions from Rich and from Gordon Rugg were neutral. While I disagree with their theories about the MS, I know both and have found talking to them personally both interesting and pleasant.